E-Drum Perception

[danovotny]

[stickinthemud]

This is much-discussed topic at this forum as you might imagine. For me the pro-acoustic prejudice stems from several sources;

1. They're what people have come to know as "real drums".
2. A "real" instrument (i.e. the grand piano you cited) has a large measure of what I call "authority" because it is an authentic instrument. No one will ever say of a grand piano, no matter how bad it sounds, that it doesn't sound like a grand piano. Same goes for drums.
3. A big shiny drum kit with lots of cymbals is a visual circus. This is why the Kodo drummers and Blue Man Group are so popular. People are not just after the sound when it comes to drums - the also enjoy the visual spectacle.

I will tell you one member of the group who will LOVE an ekit - the sound man. No more problems caused by a dozen mics, cables, feedback, bleedover, etc. This aspect, and reason 3 above are the two main reasons edrums are so widely used in churches. They don't distract from the worship leader as much, and they can be dealt with reasonably well by amateur sound technicians.

The reason your psyche has less of a hard time accepting an electronic piano over edrums is that electronic keyboards have been around a lot longer. There are very few acts who can afford to transport and maintain a grand piano, and the ability to call up a Hammond B3, strings, pipe organ, piano, etc. is just too good a deal to pass up anyway.

The "too perfect" aspect you speak of is what I would call "nuance", and edrums have a long way to go in that respect. Roland is inching closer with positional sensing and interval sensing - the TD20s is a truly amazing work of technology. Many improvements are still to be made, though.

As we edrummers learn to exploit the advantages of our instruments, they will gain wider acceptance. If we just use them as a replacement for acoustic drums, it will take much longer.

[danovotny]

I am currently plugging into a TD-20. I can agree, that it some of the best sounding kits I have heard. Another point I have pondered: How many modern artists use e-drums in the studio, and gig with an acoustic set? I wonder if the numbers would be surprising. In my opinion, professionally mic'd drums (with all the bells an whistles) sometimes sound like what modern modules can produce.

[TriggerThis]

In my opinion, professionally mic'd drums (with all the bells an whistles) sometimes sound like what modern modules can produce.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt that what drum modules are trying to acheive ? i.e. sound like the real-miked-compressed-EQed-FXed acoustic kit. And thats the reason why they are not widly acepted yet, some people think they don't sound like drums. (sounds like a vicious circle to me!)


Keyboards have been a long for longer and have been more widly accepted amongst keyboardist too I think.

Seems like synth were made to widen the keyboard players possibilites.

WHile the edrum was made to replace the acoustic drum -- wich is likly to be much more complicated and have more chance of failing as a widly accepted musical instrument.

I got my own little twisted solution to this whole mess.

I just tell anyone who wants to know that acoustic and electronic drums are 2 different musical instruments and that I happen to play the electronic kind.

[Colquhoun]

Or, just describe your acoustic set at the kit you play when you want to go "unplugged".

[mystic fred]

i like to use the Guitar as an analogy for the argument for or against v-drums/acoustic drums - way back in the early 1950's Leo Fender took a lot of criticism for his first incarnation of the solid bodied electric guitar, the "Broadcaster". many acoustic players jeered saying it was just a novelty, but how wrong they were. we now know the electric guitar has its own limitless possibilities and today lives happily alongside acoustics, it was never intended to replace anything but is now an integral part of most jazz and rock bands. i see electronic v-drums fulfilling its own spectacular niche in the world of percussion but never replacing acoustic instruments, many like myself love the look of acoustic drums and have managed to incorporate electronics into an acoustic set successfully, but have an acoustic set on hand so as to not miss out on any "nuances" therein - but as electronic modules become more sophisticated the percussion /recording scene will definitely get more interesting!

[Colquhoun]

And then there was when Dylan went electric...
Man, we have come a long way since then. E-drums need to go a little further in people's minds, however.

Wikipedia: Electric Dylan controversy

[John.b]

Im of the old school and think A's will never be replaced. Not on stage anyway. As much as I like playing these E's (for my own satisfaction) I know I would'nt feel right with them on stage. Yea there great at producing the perfect sound, but you dont need the energy that A's require and transmit, and in my world, its the energy and the feel transmitted that counts.
Ive never played E's on stage so I dont really know so this is just my perseption. Just to sit down behind a full A kit made me feel like God.

[danovotny]

Would it be possible through proper module settings (mask time, retrigger, etc), to trigger unmuffled acoustic drums?

[Charly]

Good point

Im of the old school and think A's will never be replaced. Not on stage anyway. As much as I like playing these E's (for my own satisfaction) I know I would'nt feel right with them on stage. Yea there great at producing the perfect sound, but you dont need the energy that A's require and transmit, and in my world, its the energy and the feel transmitted that counts.
Ive never played E's on stage so I dont really know so this is just my perseption. Just to sit down behind a full A kit made me feel like God.

Good point John, don't get me wrong, I'm an avid vdrum player, want to gig with them (have only had the opportunity 3 times), but a question to all, would you rather sit behind a maxed out td20 or a totally maxed out acoustic kit.

Obviously Neil Peart has got it right with his 360 kit!

[stickinthemud]

Would it be possible through proper module settings (mask time, retrigger, etc), to trigger unmuffled acoustic drums?

Probably. Have you considered converting your kit using mesh heads? A lot of people use this approach, keeping the cymbals as you have suggested.

would you rather sit behind a maxed out td20 or a totally maxed out acoustic kit.

If I had a road crew to lug the beast around and set it up for me, sure! Same way a keyboard player would prefer a grand piano and a Hammond B3 with a Leslie amp and a pipe organ. Same way the Moody Blues would like to have toured with a full orchestra.

E-drums solve a great many practical problems, but are not the ultimate performance instrument. I think that triggered samples will be used more and more as sound technicians find how much easier they are to deal with, but the crowd will always love the big kit with the flashy cymbals and the 8-foot gong in back, even if everything is a triggered sample.

[danovotny]

I have considered mesh heads. But agian, I would then truly essentially be transporting an oversized 7 piece kit. If I could get them to their natural sound, as well as being triggered, I could maybe justify it. Perhaps I just need to put some more time and effort into just micing them?

[drumslinger50]

I use my electronic drums on stage all the time. However, I did solve my perception problem by remounting my rolands into small acoustic drums. The result is a versitile set that fits into 4 suitcases and a cymbal bag. I use solid bottom heads painted black and mesh heads on top. Personaly I like the look of the black & white Roland V cymbals. My kit is black, white and chrome and I think it just looks right. On stage I am so used to having everything I desire at the push of a button-timbales, congas, bongos, 5 good sounding sets of toms, tamborines, cowbells, and on and on, that an A set just seems so backwards and limiting to me these days. The band I work with DEMANDS an e-drummer and I get paid pretty well so it must be working. I think that the more we have drummers who go out and use the E/V-drums in public and are proud instead of sensitive about it-the quicker they will catch on. But then again, I'm an old guy and I don't like to move heavy stuff around and really don't give s**t what other people think.

[Dick Gail]

Hello to all: I am new to this panel and have seen some interesting articles from several people all concerning Edrums. My name is **** Gail and I go by the name of "TECHNOKING" I have a very different story and message than most. Have been involved with Edrums for over 15years and if interested have several thoughts on this subject. My rig is 83 rack spaces for my E Drum Kit alone.

[Dick Gail]

Electronic Drums were not created so that drummers could play drums. Drums exist as their own sound acoustically. Electronic triggering called edrums were created with the idea in mind to allow any drummer who COULD play - to play any sound he could dream of creating and then apply this to creating music by playing or triggering these creations musically, in a rhythmic, polyrythmic or atonal format. This opened the door for great drummers to create an entire new format - and led the way for drummers that were also musicians to move on to other controllers and creating some new creative percussive led and odd toned rythmns and music.