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Suggested subwoofer settings

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  • Suggested subwoofer settings

    Whoopee! New sound system at church with two big subs. I kinda feel like they are putting higher frequencies in than they should. Where do those of you who use subwoofers "draw the line", or rather, what reange of frequencies do you send to your subs?

  • #2
    depends on the subs really but anywhere from 80 to 200 Hertz. I always ran my subs off an auxiliary send from the desk using a xover as a low pass filter and the mid/high boxes full range on top of them taking the lows out of the mid/highs with EQ. This way you control what instruments go to each, for example more kick in the subs than mid/high and cymbals only in the mid/high and so on depending on the frequency response of the instrument...
    My Kit
    http://www.vdrums.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1257067362

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    • #3
      M_C_M is right on the money. This method undoubtedly gives you the cleanest, sharpest aesthetic possible. 2 gold stars for M_C_M!!
      "Today young men on acid realised that all matter is purely energy condensed to a slow vibration; That we are all of one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively; There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves.. Here's Tom with the weather"...

      TD-20 + TMC-6 + VF-1 + Gen16's = Not enough inputs.
      Watch me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLqt6zaAYkY

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      • #4
        ...another two paws up for MCM. No need to reiterate what has already been stated

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        • #5
          MCM,

          Thanks for that! I'll pass it along to our sound man and see if we can implement your advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            No problems! Certainly if you are adding subs to a system the method mentioned is the way to go, but if the system is designed as a matched package with processors etc you are probably better running it as it was designed to be run especially if it is new as you may void warranty. Just some after thoughts there...
            My Kit
            http://www.vdrums.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1257067362

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            • #7
              I run my crossover at 100 or 125. When I am running a show with my Allen & Heath board, which has a great matrix section, I use M_C_Ms trick of sending separate feeds. If I am running a smaller gig, or a DJ rig, I use a single feed through the crossover.

              But no instance do I ever feed the subs greater than 125. (Crossovers do have a curve, but you know what I mean).
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Somebody care to translate all that?

                It sounds like the complete signal goes to the tops and you just use eq to cut out the low end.

                Why not use a high pass filter and just send the mids and highs to the tops?

                I believe my sub's out acts as a high pass filter. Is there a disadvantage to that?
                . . . . . . . . . .

                "Make me an instrument of your peace..."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Renegator View Post
                  Somebody care to translate all that?

                  It sounds like the complete signal goes to the tops and you just use eq to cut out the low end.

                  Why not use a high pass filter and just send the mids and highs to the tops?

                  I believe my sub's out acts as a high pass filter. Is there a disadvantage to that?
                  Q1: Is yes thats exactly whats happening.
                  Q2: Because there is no need for a high pass filter. Also the above method gives you more control.
                  Q3: The sub out (if I understand what your saying) is a low pass filter. The method described is for mixers that don't have sub outs.
                  My Kit
                  http://www.vdrums.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1257067362

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by M_C_M View Post
                    Q1: Is yes thats exactly whats happening.
                    Q2: Because there is no need for a high pass filter. Also the above method gives you more control.
                    Q3: The sub out (if I understand what your saying) is a low pass filter. The method described is for mixers that don't have sub outs.
                    Thanks for clearing that up.

                    BTW, according to Wikipedia (fwiw) a high pass filter filters out the low end and lets the high end pass through.
                    . . . . . . . . . .

                    "Make me an instrument of your peace..."

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                    • #11
                      Heh heh. I owe you an even bigger thank you actually. I had been wondering why my sub didn't sound as good as it was supposed to. Afer reading your post here, I did a search and ended up on Harmony Central's live sound forum. What I read seems to follow what you say but with a little more detail, or least in a way I understand more clearly.

                      A guy there posted that he uses a crossover to cut frequencies to the sub that are over 90, because the cutoff on the Yorkville LS700P (the one I have) doesn't work very well. He said that when set at 100, the lowest setting, the LS700P still lets through a bunch of stuff at 125 to 150, which kills it.

                      So I ran downstairs and tweaked my settings. In the module, I ran the kick to the left, the snare and cymbals to the right, and the toms to the center. I then ran the L and R outs to my little mixer, and then panned each of those channels to the extreme, Left to Left and Right to Right. The left went to the sub and the right went to the top, a dbTechnologies Opera.

                      I cut back totally on the bass on the right and cut back totally on the mid and high to the left.

                      Wow, everything seems to sound much cleaner. I could only play through the PA for a minute or two since my wife just got home from work, but I am pretty psyched.

                      The sub no longers farts. Now it has a nice resonance and the cymbals seem to sparkle more. The snare is crisper too, I think.

                      Could all be subjective, so I'll have to play with it some more tomorrow.

                      Thanks again for the interesting tip.

                      Rene
                      . . . . . . . . . .

                      "Make me an instrument of your peace..."

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                      • #12
                        MCM has hit it out of the park! The best set up is the one that leaves you with the most control.

                        With regards to the crossover point, you need to know where your mid/highs begin to trail off and begin to do a poor job of reproducing low frequencies. That is the point, or at least near the point where you should set your crossover or filters. Your sound man should be aware of these issues as well as the drivers sweet spots.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Renegator View Post
                          BTW, according to Wikipedia (fwiw) a high pass filter filters out the low end and lets the high end pass through.
                          Thats how I always thought it worked. Maybe I misunderstood you.
                          The whole P.A. thing can get very confusing at times. I should point out about now that I have absolutely no formal training in this kind of thing, not that it matters, all my education came from hands on and what I have read and been shown by others. There is no substitute for a good pair of ears, if it doesn't sound right then it probably isn't, but in saying that you need to know how to hook everything together and you should at least know the basic concepts of polarity, impedance and phase etc. All musicians should have some knowledge of audio and sound production. It can be very frustrating as a sound person working with players that just don't have a clue, drummers that can't tune drums or guitar players that wouldn't know a good sound if it bit them in the butt and when they sound bad trying to put the blame onto you. I have spent many years learning how to tune and mic a drum set and (blowing my own horn a little I know) I can get a drum sound with the best of them. This is the main reason I back the acoustic drums in all the A v's E threads out there. Its a skill unto its self that not lot a drummers have gained. Anyway I'll stop now I just thought I'd add a little more as this is an interesting topic and one that I am obviously passionate about.

                          Thanks all...
                          My Kit
                          http://www.vdrums.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1257067362

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            MCM,

                            Got a chance to talk to the sound tech who is selling us the new equipment. He tells me only signal 90 cycles and lower is going to the subs, and that the plans are to just cut an opening in the aprons of the stage to the left and right of the steps and just slide them in.

                            Both services agreed that the sound was vastly superior to the previous system (Mackie 15-something actives at the side and a couple of mid-highs hung over the stage). We will have great fun playing for the youth Sports Camp every night this week. the kid's stuff is much more energetic than the standard P&W we play on Sundays, so we plan to crank it a bit and have fun.

                            Thanks for the pointers!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stickinthemud View Post
                              MCM,

                              Got a chance to talk to the sound tech who is selling us the new equipment. He tells me only signal 90 cycles and lower is going to the subs, and that the plans are to just cut an opening in the aprons of the stage to the left and right of the steps and just slide them in.

                              Both services agreed that the sound was vastly superior to the previous system (Mackie 15-something actives at the side and a couple of mid-highs hung over the stage). We will have great fun playing for the youth Sports Camp every night this week. the kid's stuff is much more energetic than the standard P&W we play on Sundays, so we plan to crank it a bit and have fun.

                              Thanks for the pointers!
                              Sounds great, getting a professional install is a great idea as they know how to position the speakers in the room correctly which makes a huge difference to the sound, They should also EQ it right for the room. Providing your sound man is on the ball you'll get some great results, sounds like a lot fun. It would be great if a few of your people could be there for the install to get a better understanding of the system. Let us know how it works out.
                              My Kit
                              http://www.vdrums.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1257067362

                              Comment

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