I'm Not a metronome in the Background

[Black Widow]

I play with a few blokes that are wanting to do some recording. Our lead guitarist is great, but I think he thinks we are all thier to supply him with what he needs and wants. I recently purchased a TD12 to replace my old DM4 Alisis kit and was very excited about my new kit. It seems that since I purchased it that the Guitar players feel they have the level of knowledge to bag the sounds but not allow me the time or freedom to edit them in a band enviroment.

Its funny how comments like " I'm not sure I like the sound of the bass drum!" A comment I have never heard when I played A-Drums. It seems as soon as you offer the variations of an E-Kit that you open up to complaints and unwarrented opinions . What is it with Guitar Players that think it's all about them and what they think sounds best. I am not a metronome for them to play with. I am as creative as they are and want to be able to use the full functions on my TD12 for the betterment of the whole band sound. I think Guitarists are not comming to grips very well with drummers that want to add more than just a tapping noise in the background... Each time I go and play with these blokes I feel like I waisted my money on the kit. Once I get home and play by myself (diff to playing with yourself) I think my e-drums are the best things Ive purchased in a long time... I think it might be time to just enjoy my kit on my own. I hate it when the guitarists all talk about what would sound great with thier backs to you as if you are nothing that matters....


Just had a bad night and wanted to blow some steam out.... Thanks for reading


Mardy

[stickinthemud]

It is very annoying when other band members feel they must take it upon themselves to be the arbiters of every nuance of the performance. On the other hand, if someone has written a song and wants to record it, they probably have an idea of the other instruments in mind and are hoping to find other musicians to help turn those ideas into a finished product. So yes, he ultimately does want to gather some talent around him that he can bend to his creative will.

I wonder - is the guitarist hearing your kit through headphones or a speaker? If it's a speaker, it's not surprising he doesn't like the kick. You have to remember also, people are used to feeling the kick. That could be part of the problem. Just give him a good kick

You probably never got requests for different drum sounds when playing acoustics because an actual physical instrument has a certain authority about it. It sounds like it does because it is what it is. On the other hand, edrums lack that authority because they are sampled sounds, and the listener has no physical object to "back up" what they are hearing. Also, it's so easy to dial in another kick drum on an e-kit. Asking the drummer to significantly change the tone of any of the drums on his acoustic kit would be very time-consuming, so most people just don't bother to ask.

Maybe it would help to look at it this way - when someone says they don't know if they like the sound of a particular drum, it doesn't mean they think you don't know what you're doing - it just means they have a different sound in mind. Your guitarist is probably pretty jazzed that he can say he would like to hear a different kick drum sound and get something from his drummer other than a puzzled shrug (or the finger).

If you feel really strongly about the sounds you have selected, don't hesitate to say so and make a case for why you think your choice is the best one. I find that other musicians typically respect a strongly held and well-presented rationale for going with a particular sound. If going with the leader's preferences over your own is just too painful, then maybe it's time to move on. Playing an instrument should not be painful, unless of course it pays really well...

[M_C_M]

A Joke

How many guitar players does it take to change a light bulb? None they like to steal every one elses light...

[Black Widow]

Thanks Stickinthemud.


You have made me feel a little bit better about the situation. Yea I did give him a listen via the headphones and it does sound better. I tried to explain that the sound is only as good as the system it's plugged into. We were using a Yamaha PA with Yamaha speakers and I also have a Peavy 400 watt with Leem speakers..

How can I improve the bass sound? can I add a sub woofer to the system? if so what and how. I have added most of the V-Expressions kits and that has helped alot... It would also help if the guys in the band would give me the time and space to make adjustments as well. Guitarists seem to do a lot of messing around, but don't like it much when drummers do. We as seen to be waisting thier time ???



Mardy

[mystic fred]

blackwidow - a band that works together should be able to express their feelings freely, but if you feel the lead guitarist (they are extremely obsessive about their "sound" ) is picking on you, just mention you think their top 'E' string is out of tune or better still is buzzing - this will cause panic and many sleepless nights while he wrestles with the "problem" ....tee hee hee

[daveybabes]

Agreed!

I agree with Fred, it works both ways, just comment here and there on their sounds, ie too much feedback, are u sure it's in tune? i don't think it sounds great, oh Mr Bass man it sounds a bit muted..

You are an integral part of this band and you are due your 2 cents worth, i reckon your band mates feel a little threatened because you now have the power of the "V Drum" he he and can model your sounds like a chameleon changes colour

I would say to save up and get your own beefy sub, run through something like a Behringer crossover unit, it seperates your high frequencies from low.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHCX3400

Do u have your own PA for your drums? What's your set up? ideally you could do with your own mixer, power amp, or a powered mixer then go tops out/subs out, a pair of maybe 15" with tweeters as tops for your mids and highs and a pair of 18"s for the bass frequencies. Then just blow those dudes away, add so much kick that it shakes their fillings loose

[drum4ever]

Just tell him when he adds that Ross compressor and the Keely modded Tube Screamer to his rig then he can suggest different drum sounds. Nobody fusses with electronics more than our guitar player (my brother). His pedal board is never quite large enough, he changes effects and amps almost monthly, and now he has me building boutique modded effects for him.

[stickinthemud]

I have heard much good said of the Matrix B-52. Whether it has the power you need depends on the size of your venues. It's best, if possible, to have your amp system separate from the band's PA, due to the aforementioned control issues.

[jammin777]

Thanks Stickinthemud.


You have made me feel a little bit better about the situation. Yea I did give him a listen via the headphones and it does sound better. I tried to explain that the sound is only as good as the system it's plugged into. We were using a Yamaha PA with Yamaha speakers and I also have a Peavy 400 watt with Leem speakers..

How can I improve the bass sound? can I add a sub woofer to the system? if so what and how. I have added most of the V-Expressions kits and that has helped alot... It would also help if the guys in the band would give me the time and space to make adjustments as well. Guitarists seem to do a lot of messing around, but don't like it much when drummers do. We as seen to be waisting thier time ???



Mardy

yes a sub and a bbe sonic maximizer

[lopan]

I wonder - is the guitarist hearing your kit through headphones or a speaker? If it's a speaker, it's not surprising he doesn't like the kick. You have to remember also, people are used to feeling the kick. That could be part of the problem. Just give him a good kick

You probably never got requests for different drum sounds when playing acoustics because an actual physical instrument has a certain authority about it.

I think STM is on to something here. I play on a set of As at the practice space and one of my band mates noticed that the air coming out of the port hole on my kick drum was moving the lid of a cardboard box across the room. I wonder what type of speaker and amplification would it take to create the same amount of air movement? I use a couple of EON 15s for stage monitors, and while they sound good, I don't think they come close to moving that much air. Not enough to "hit you in the chest".

[ige87]

To do that, you'd need a pretty serious system! A ported sub may well do that, but it'd need to be a big one.

[gingerbaker]

Or you could make your band mates, your wallet, and your back happy and just use an acoustic kick drum. (I think I may go to this, as my subwoofer seems to be dying).

[tablatom]

Thanks Stickinthemud.


You have made me feel a little bit better about the situation. Yea I did give him a listen via the headphones and it does sound better. I tried to explain that the sound is only as good as the system it's plugged into. We were using a Yamaha PA with Yamaha speakers and I also have a Peavy 400 watt with Leem speakers..

How can I improve the bass sound? can I add a sub woofer to the system? if so what and how. I have added most of the V-Expressions kits and that has helped alot... It would also help if the guys in the band would give me the time and space to make adjustments as well. Guitarists seem to do a lot of messing around, but don't like it much when drummers do. We as seen to be waisting thier time ???



Mardy

Hey Mardy,
for a really great td-12 sound i just bought this

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-Stagepas-500-Portable-PA-System?sku=480938&src=3SOSWXXA

The sound out if these relatively small speakers is fantastic.
They are really clear, lovely fat warm bass end and very very loud.
Check these out, they have totaly changed my v drum experience on stage.
I put one on each side of my kit slightly forward and i get nice stereo imagery.

They are cheap and very easy to transport and set up.

I am sure your band mates will be happier with a great sound these speakers produce.

tOM

[T2al]

try these http://www.wharfedalepro.com/Default...id=201&dLang=1 .Just got a pair they sound great,and with my sub it s perfecto moundo.they have more mid and more snap then my samson DB500a.AL

[Myrk-]

Your not in the right band with the right people. When your with the right set of people you can sit there jamming away yourself as you do, but making sure you don't start and stop, and the rest of the band will just sync in perfectly. Its only happened to me one time ever for approx 2 hours. We made some amazing music on the spot without any talking or deciding before hand, but unfortunately never recorded any of it... ARG!

As for this e-drums don't create a feeling bass drum, thats a lie. Just crank up the volume to the same as an acoustic and you'll feel it big time! I do at least through my PM-30. You have to have module volume on near full and amp volume on 3/4 to get an acoustic volume I find.

For proof that its a lie, go to a metal gig. Those bass drums have a tiny tad of acoustic sound but are mainly, if not completely, electric most of the time. Every time I see In Flames play live my insides feel like someones beating the crap out of them from the inside out- thats what triggered bass drums sound like! So I think you'll find acoustic bass drums are the weak ones when it comes to live performance. Even practicing I feel the electric drums fine- me and my guitarist swap around all the time, and he also prefers the triggers.