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TD-50 DIRECT OUTS..................HELP!!!

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  • Alan VEX
    replied
    Originally posted by MvBelle View Post
    Hi,
    Would it be better to strip the crashes from the toms en sent them via DO 7+8 and maybe add some effects with the mixing console?
    Yup.

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  • MvBelle
    replied
    Hi,
    The way I use my DO's right now: 1 kick, 2 snare, 3 HiHat, 4 Ride, 5+6 Toms and crashes , 7+8 reverb/ amb. I turned the crashes a little down on the module so they're in balance with the toms.
    This way I don't feel the ambiance/ reverb is that helpfull in live situations. Another issue is: I have effects on the rims of the toms: it's not possible to sent those separately to a DO. Would it be better to strip the crashes from the toms en sent them via DO 7+8 and maybe add some effects with the mixing console?

    Meindert

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  • Alan VEX
    replied
    The DOs are for external mixing. Let the engineer hear your mix. Tell him to match it. All heís adding is EQ, Comp & Reverb. Itís not that hard. They can even look at my master settings for an idea.

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  • Bobus
    replied
    Ok. Forget recording and forget infinity pack for a minute. Live work: you spend a considerable amount of time modeling a kit for live performance and get the kit sound exactly as you want it including ambiance and mfx, but you want FOH engineer to have your individual levels. Basically you canít do it. Bit of a flaw of the DOís? ĎAlmostí pointless and you just have to send the stereo master to FOH. Probably differing opinions on this but itís a bit of a drawback. Only a little one though....
    Last edited by Bobus; 03-27-19, 07:05 PM.

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  • Alan VEX
    replied
    If you have a PC, download Reaper. Record the midi performance. Run passes and create your individual tracks like I explained. You literally need a basic interface for under $200, a midi I/O cable, and 1 or two audio cables to accomplish this. Hell, you may be able to import stems into the Tascam after theyíre created. This is not that hard.

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  • mkok
    replied
    I donít think striping will do what you want. I used to do this with a tape machine and all you stripe to tape is the time code not a midi sequence. When you play back the time code is converted to midi time code or midi clock which you transmit over a midi interface into a DAW.

    So so do you mean record the drums as midi into the td50 (I didnít know this could be done?) and then send the midi time code to the td50? Sounds like you could have done with spending some of the cash for a td50 on a DAW

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  • Bobus
    replied
    No problem. Guess I need to look into DAW or another option I have. I've got a SMTPE time code device that I can stripe a track on the Tascam to keep a MIDI sequence (that I could record MIDI from the TD50) in sync with the 'tape' transport. Problem is, it's not something you find many people have experience with these days and I only had partial success keeping my old TD9 in sync with a tape transport on the Tascam via a MIDI sequencer. I'm a drummer, I hit things, not a programmer :-)

    Had no luck looking for advice about a year ago trying to work out the SMTPE stripe method. One of the reasons I went for a new module with 8 DO's and I'm still only a small step forward. Any advice on where I could ask some questions regarding keeping a sequenced midi recoding in sync with tape? Don't want to give up on what should be possible and go DAW - I'm a bit of a luddite like that - but theoretically it should work. But its a bit like the moon landings; everyone who knew the technology to do it is mostly no longer around.....

    Thanks again.

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  • Alan VEX
    replied
    What you want to do is not possible, without the steps I provided. Please read my post again. Without a DAW, thereís no way to achieve this.

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  • Bobus
    replied
    Thanks for the reply. I think what I'm asking to do may not be possible then. I want to get the individual 'processed' sounds out on the direct outputs individually. i.e. the kick on DO1, snare on DO2 etc etc. so that during playback on the Tascam I can mix the individual channel levels (and fix any fluffs I make!). Or to put it another way, I want the playback on the Tascam to be the eight channels recorded from the DO's WITH the Infinity processing.

    If that's not possible on the TD-50, my idea was to route hats, ride & crash's just to two DO's, leaving me two DO's to route the Infinity processed output to, leaving me control during playback of the individual kit levels and a stereo feed of the processed kit sounds to add to the mix. This would be a compromise as any changes to levels of the 6 kit channels would not be reflected in the two channels used for the overall 'processed' mix.

    No DAW I'm afraid, the Tascam is just mixer, effects & 24 tracks - no midi either. I guess if what I'm asking is not possible, then I'll need to look for other options.

    Thanks
    Bob

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  • Alan VEX
    replied
    Direct outs will be the instrument modeling (everything in the instrument tab), EQ & Comp. (the top couple of pages in the mixer tab) The Master EQ & Comp (bottom couple of pages in the mixer tab) would always be missing.

    Ambiance CAN be routed separately (as you suggested) and as an entire kit. IIRC, you can route that to the DOs OR the Master separately. (by removing the instruments from the Master)

    Theoretically, if you run individual passes of each instrument from a DAW back to the module (solo instruments via recorded midi performance), you could solo each instrument, its ambiance on another two DOs/Master, and record each instrument alone with its ambiance. (not sure why anyone would want to do this, as it's not the "master"... it's a mix of direct & ambiance, without master master EQ & Comp)

    Is that what you're asking? The 1-6 DO part is what's confusing me. Are you planning to group something? Outside the cowbell on McPunchy, there are no MFX to worry about on Infinity.

    As for why it's not sounding good... it's because you're now MIXING raw direct outs and processed master signals. That's not what you hear through the master/phones. You hear PROCESSED direct signals through masters/phones.

    If you're recording to a DAW, and have quality plugins to work with, I'd ALWAYS recommend recording the DOs (raw modeling, EQ & Comp) as they are designed (you can multi-pass the toms individually if desired), and use the quality plugins at the DAW for your master EQ and Comps over the Roland DSP stuff. You'll get an even better result. Just use my settings at the DAW as a starting point. You'll likely achieve extremely similar result, at a better quality.

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  • Bobus
    replied
    I'm a bit late to the party on this topic, and quite new to the TD-50. I've read whats posted above and also trawled through the TD-50 manual. If I understand correctly, the ambiance and MFX can be routed out through the direct outs, but only as a stereo feed of the overall kit ambiance+mfx assigned to two of the 8 direct outs, essentially a stereo feed of the overall kit amb+fx?

    So, if I hook up the direct outs to my Tascam 24-track (and I'm going to use Vexpressions Infinity pack as an example here) and I want to record all 8 outputs on separate tracks (kik, snr, hats,toms etc) then 6 of the outputs will be, as you say above, essentially just dry without ambiance+mfx. and two of the channels (kick and snare as an example) will carry these sounds, plus the ambiance + effects for all the rest of the kit?

    In short, its impossible to record the separate 8 direct outputs each sounding excellent with the Infinity pre-sets? If that's correct, my only option would be to do what? Group ride, crash and hats onto two direct outputs, freeing up a pair of outputs just for ambiance &mfx. So kit recorded on 1-6 of the Tascam and amb+mfx on tracks 7&8? I've tried that and it still does not sound as good as the stereo master feed or headphones direct from the TD-50. I really hope I'm missing something buried in the TD-50 settings somewhere as that would be a bit of a limitation on Rolands part. Also a bit early to find a limitation on the direct outs - hopefully I'm overlooking something, not being fully familiar with the TD50 yet.

    Fingers crossed!

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  • Alan VEX
    replied
    The DOs carry the instrument modeling, but not the effects. DOs do not carry master compression or effects. MFX and ambiance can be sent separately. Think of the DOs as only the micing of the instrument. So, yes, you can model in some muffling, and that will be sent through the DOs. You can also disconnect (route) DO volume from the external faders for separate monitoring at the module, while still sending a full signal to a FOH/DAW. There is really a lot to go into regarding DOs. I would suggest downloading the PDF manual for the 50, and searching through it for everyting that references "direct out". You'll find a tons of setting options.

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  • Roger
    started a topic TD-50 DIRECT OUTS..................HELP!!!

    TD-50 DIRECT OUTS..................HELP!!!

    Hello V-Drums Forum, I need some help with the direct outs on the TD-50. Is there a way to tune the toms, snare, kick and cymbals independent of the direct outs? In other words, I like my toms to have tonality to them with no muffling (going to headphone output). Our sound guy want me to put muffling on the toms going to front of house. I've already turned off faders to direct and effects going to direct outs to give him my drums dry with no effects. But he wants to muffle my drums which takes away the tonality that I like to hear in my headphones. Is there a way to tune the drums specifically for front of house without affecting the tonality of my drums coming through my headphones? Any help or suggestions appreciated........................Roger Whitsett
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