Welcome! If this is your first visit, you will need to register to participate.

DO NOT use symbols in usernames. Doing so will result in an inability to sign in & post!

If you cannot sign in or post, please visit our vBulletin Talk section for answers to vBulletin related FAQs.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

All this talk...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • All this talk...

    Now I know that the concept of "different" sounding drums is old hat, especially for 80's music. But, isn't it possible to make a TD-10 have a great sound? I mean, I have mine dialed in pretty close to being "exactally" the drum sound I want.

    Not to say that the sound is as good as this or that, but it's the right sound for the right song. Does that mean that it's not the right module or right drumset to use for a recording?

    By no means I am saying that Acoustics are better, or electronics can't be used. What I am saying is that even with the "lower sound quality" of the TD-10, it's possible to record a great drum sound, even with a 16 bit audio interface with only 2 channels.

    I just wanted to jump in on all the talk of the inferior "TD-10" people out there. And the other thing, if these "huge dollar" studios can't make a TD-10 sound good... What did they waste their money on?
    Mapex Acoustic Birch 6pc Kit - Sabian Cymbals - PC Recorder/MIDI: Sonar 2.2 - M Audio Audiophile 24/96 / Avance AC97 - Samson 65A Monitors - Building a V-drum revolution kit: 3 - 10" Toms, 14" Snare, 2 - 16" Crashes, 12" Hats, 10" Mesh Kick - MODULE TO BE DETERMINED...

  • #2
    Re: All this talk...

    Mainly, there are higher standards of digital quality available, and there is room to imrove how the samples are stored. The potential is out there, so people are going to naturally want a system that gives them these things.

    However, it really depends on what works for you. If it does (and it does for me), then why worry yourself about what other people are saying. Everybody has to make up their own mind as to when "good" is "good enough".

    Joe

    | Argos | Your Cloud | Lost In Germany | Life Wasted | Identity Crisis
    | The Xerophyte | Red Barchetta | Subdivisions or Drums Only |

    Superior Drummer w/ Metal Foundry, dfhS samples and Platinum Samples Evil Drums.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok- This all makes sense, but...

      What if I went out and tried 100 different snares to get the sound that I now have programmed in to my TD-10? I think that if you are creative and have a very solid understanding of electronics you can make these things do just about anything.

      I totally agree with what everyone is saying about being behind the times with sound production, but as far as recording, the kits that I have programmed have all sounded above average. I have heard much worse from people that go into a studio without the benefit of a good producer or drum tech. I think what it comes down to is exactally what C was saying about is it good enough?

      To me, after recording acoustics to an overhead mic setup, a then triggered through a D4, then a DTXpress, I think that the TD-10 is light years ahead of everything else. And believe me, before I bought I tried everything! Ddrum, Yamaha, Roland (thought the TD-8 was remarkably close - if not better...???) and the list continues.

      I guess I just snap at people for wanting everything and not realizing what a powerful tool we all have. So now that I am done complaining, we now return to our regularly scheduled broadcast.

      Thanks!
      Mapex Acoustic Birch 6pc Kit - Sabian Cymbals - PC Recorder/MIDI: Sonar 2.2 - M Audio Audiophile 24/96 / Avance AC97 - Samson 65A Monitors - Building a V-drum revolution kit: 3 - 10" Toms, 14" Snare, 2 - 16" Crashes, 12" Hats, 10" Mesh Kick - MODULE TO BE DETERMINED...

      Comment


      • #4
        Normalizing?

        Wow, that is some heavy stuff.

        I guess my thinking is rather short sided here. I guess for recording at home, I think of MP3 quality stuff. Not CD's. I don't think anyone can get a CD quality sound at home for many of the reasons listed here. First off, the background noise, the lack of high end mics, the processing equipment... and the list continues...

        For what we have done, we used to record to a Boss BR-8 digital, and converted to wav files. Yes, the drums would be on a left and right channel only with mixing done pre-recording or just midi'ed in. Then the vocals and bass were added with the guitar tracks and poof, instant MP3...

        Now, we are running far more advanced than that with a TD-10 running to separate channels, Sonar software, Altec Lansing monitors - this is starting to sound like a commerical - but lets just say much better quality overall.

        While we are still not "CD Quality" compared to what was being done, this is a phenominal step. And with the cost of studio time in Seattle for a GOOD studio running about $150 an hour, it makes good sense to get as many scratch tracks in wav format as possible on the chance they can use them.

        Now, when we do start spending $150 an hour on the studio for a CD, then renting that Recording Custom or Starclassic makes more sense, but I think I will still layer the sound with the TD-10 and triggers.

        I totally appreciate everyone's opinions on this and everyone has had great input. Thanks!
        Mapex Acoustic Birch 6pc Kit - Sabian Cymbals - PC Recorder/MIDI: Sonar 2.2 - M Audio Audiophile 24/96 / Avance AC97 - Samson 65A Monitors - Building a V-drum revolution kit: 3 - 10" Toms, 14" Snare, 2 - 16" Crashes, 12" Hats, 10" Mesh Kick - MODULE TO BE DETERMINED...

        Comment


        • #5
          i think that the vdrums sound exceptional when used for recording,they fit in snuggly with the mix. but i do believe that electrics take much more work to get them dialed in for live performance. but than again they will exceed what the "average"guy uses them for,and that is for using them at bars,clubs,parties,wedings,semipro home recordings,ect. but when you start talking about doing a song under a record contract your are in a new ball game, i dont care if its ddrum,vdrum or what not its almost always A's. so dont sweat it..

          Comment


          • #6
            dont get me wrong electrics have a long way to go and i hope that someday they get there.and there is no reason that the v's or the d's dont cut it as far as specs go,but if you think about it electric guitars are a sound of there own, they are not trying to reproduce a sound of a different instument.(they are what they are electric guitars) drums on the other hand are trying to reproduce a sound of a different instrument and alot of people want them to sound like bare bones a's. (me included) we all know that the ability is there to produce such a modual and im sure it will happen. my point was is that for the average buyers ussage the v's do fit the bill .also dont fool yourself, the electric piano player that wants a grand piano sound goes through the same crap we do, we just dont realize it cause were drummers. one more thing i sit in the shadows alot,but im not really new here, all my old posts are gone..
            Last edited by craig; 02-04-03, 12:16 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've got v-sessions and I am having a blast with them.
              Very realistic sound qualities to them.
              Any drummers dream to have a nice practice set up with them.
              They're great for just playing around with them.
              I wish they had this set up 40 years ago.
              Woody

              2002 Purple V-Session w/PM-3 monitor-TDA-700 amplifier

              1971 Psychedelic Red Ludwig Rockers with Zildjian cymbals

              Comment


              • #8
                >>-FiSh*>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, if you want to groove, go with the sessions.
                  I'm having a blast with them.
                  Woody

                  2002 Purple V-Session w/PM-3 monitor-TDA-700 amplifier

                  1971 Psychedelic Red Ludwig Rockers with Zildjian cymbals

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Anytime? No.

                    A great deal of the time? Maybe.

                    For ME the V's are vastly superior. But I don't live in a recording studio or make my living with my sticks. (I was gonna say 'stick' but that would change the meaning. )

                    If I were to go into a studio I would say "Hey, this is my sound. This is what I sounded like when I landed this deal. This is what I bring to the plate. Let's work with it." And then I'd be shown the door.

                    If I were to go on tour, I'd use my Vs. No doubt about it.

                    If I were clubbing it, I'd use my Vs. No question.

                    But to say that the Vs "can stand up against acoustic drums anytime", I'd have to say that is true... but only if you are talking about actually standing or leaning them up against a set of As. It would look silly, but they'd stand there all right.
                    My website...
                    VCustom kit,
                    TD8 + Aphex Impulse,
                    HDI Cymbals.
                    A great site: eDrumming.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree that the v's are good enough for the vast majority of amateurs out there, myself included. But that doesn't mean that if there was a better module out there that I wouldn't jump on it. The sounds I get out of my td-10 work just fine for what I use it for (small church, bad room accustics). But I would like to have more realistic cymbals, and maybe more snares... If I ever got serious about playing and cared a little more about the sounds (this would be after college) I would probably get a sampler and use my td-10 as a trigger to midi device. Unless of course there is a td-12 by then

                      just my $0.02
                      Raffy85

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dead Horse, revisited...

                        Boy, we've all beaten this one around for quite some time now. Like some esteemed & more learned colleagues have already stated, it ain't that the current modules sound totally bad, per se. They do have some glaring limitations, though, and all the "ostrich head in the sand" thinking won't change that.

                        By the standards of 10 to 15 years ago, these things are pretty good, sample-wise. Now, of course, the current technology available & in daily use renders them obsolete. Like Mr. Jude said, the output section on the TD-10 sounds like a bad piece of gear in desperate need of contact cleaner, and there's really no good reason that it should be so.

                        I've done some recording with the TD-10 with fairly acceptable results, but the context (here's that word again) was fairly narrow in scope. The music was noisy, electronic-based, and didn't require a high degree of fidelity. The noise floor was way too high, acoustic cymbals were required, and the samples themselves... well, let's just say that if one is going for a realistic acoustic sound, then let your ears decide. Listen to a well-amplified TD-10 next to a set of well-tuned & played acoustic drums. Do they sound anywhere near the same? For any trained ear, the answer is no. Every time.

                        For one, the samples are not only truncated, but fail to capture many tonal nuances (frequencies and coloration) of acoustic drums. Bear in mind, though, that electronic drums are better at being electronic drums than acoustics are, so the reverse is understandably true as well. We've said this before: If you want to get the sound of an acoustic drum, use an acoustic drum. If you want the sound of an E-drum, then use the E-drum. Just make sure you compare apples to apples.

                        Sure, the TD-10 is quite flexible and gets acceptable results for the majority of the users. That's why there is no rush to make any meaningful change to it. There are, however, better tools for electronically generating a realistic acoustic drum sound. You have to spend the money, but you also have to realize that the law of diminishing returns is in effect. The first few thousand dollars you spend will yield the most dramatic results, but each jump in price after that will bring more subtle returns that won't (to many ears) justify the added expense. If you are a (and I don't mean to sound snotty) discriminating musician with a trained ear, the added expense may be worth it. Ditto if the musical context (!!!) requires a high degree of fidelity with a low noise floor, where other sounds in the mix cannot be relied upon to mask the shortcomings of the samples you use.

                        I personally think that a much more "professional-quality" module could be manufactured by a large company (read: ROLAND) by employing current industry-standard technologies without undue expense. Many current keyboards used higher-fidelity samples, even make use of COSM just like the V-Drums, are velocity-sensitive, and produce a much cleaner output signal through real balanced outputs. They have a faster & more accurate response to input signals, much larger memory, better processing, bus speed, etc. and do so for less than the $5K that many of us are willing to spend for a higher-quality piece of e-drum gear.

                        Why bother to retool & develop a better mousetrap, tho, when the market shows that it is perfectly willing to bear (and purchase) the same piece that you developed almost a decade ago? Lack of innovation in the competition means that there is no driving force behind product development. The number of drummers out there who really wish for meaningful product upgrades is probably fairly low, compared to the number of new buyers who say "Hey, how cool is this? Electronic drums!" and spend their money without knowing of the limitations inherent in the current products. After all, how many drummers actually "need" 32-bit, 96Hz samples with a 100+db signal-to-noise ratio on a daily basis? Hell, even my V-Pro kit is mainly just for practice at home.

                        Don't get upset when someone here says that your brand-new $3500 e-drum kit is obsolete. That's just an objective fact. But, one man's junker is another man's dream car...
                        -Danny

                        Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Dead Horse, revisited...

                          Originally posted by fartnokker
                          By the standards of 10 to 15 years ago, these things are pretty good, sample-wise.
                          And the stuff I play is 10 to 15 years old anyway.

                          For one, the samples are not only truncated, but fail to capture many tonal nuances (frequencies and coloration) of acoustic drums.
                          Just like my playing.

                          Don't get upset when someone here says that your brand-new $3500 e-drum kit is obsolete.
                          I don't. I just get upset when they say the drummer is obsolete!
                          My website...
                          VCustom kit,
                          TD8 + Aphex Impulse,
                          HDI Cymbals.
                          A great site: eDrumming.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Re: Dead Horse, revisited...

                            Originally posted by Ranman
                            Just like my playing.

                            I don't. I just get upset when they say the drummer is obsolete!
                            The Ranman is wise beyond his (obviously very many) years!

                            As the great Chris Jude once said, and I continue to paraphrase/plagarize:

                            "Beauty is in the ear of the beholder!"

                            Current e-drums may be way behind, but they beat the hell outta playing guitar!
                            -Danny

                            Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "Current e-drums may be way behind, but they beat the hell outta playing guitar! "


                              Amen to that!!!
                              >>-FiSh*>

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X