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MIDI not in sync with audio TD9/Cubase/Addictive

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  • MIDI not in sync with audio TD9/Cubase/Addictive


    I've been setting up a studio, and the drums have been by far the hardest thing to get working 'right'. Vdrums has saved the day several times already, but I can't find an answer (or an exact reference) to this problem in previous threads. I'm hoping someone can help...

    I have a TD9 connected via MIDI and line-out audio to a Focusrite Saffire Pro sampling at 96K with a reported input latency of 2.6mS, and output of 3.5mS. The audio channels go straight into Cubase Studio 4.5.2. The PC is a quad Phenom 3GB RAM / 2.3GHz with XP SP3 (I know from my handle that I should be on Linux, but that is another story.)

    The MIDI goes into the wonderful eDrum MIDI Mapper. Then eDrum MIDI Mapper is connected to the handy and free LoopBe internal virtual MIDI port. The Addictive Drums 2.0 is a VST in Cubase that is connected to the LoopBe virtual MIDI port.

    [Side note on mapping the native TD9 to Addictive Drums: For anyone reading this I think this is the only realistic way to get your drums, including hi-hat pedal etc., working properly with Addictive Drums. I think I tried just about everything else. Just bite the bullet - it will be faster than looking for an easy 'off the shelf' solution. I too expected that the manufacturers would have all got this sorted out for the pretty substantial prices you pay, but as of January 2009 I don't think they have. I tried for days to avoid putting all these extra programs in, and then going through the pain of manually mapping the TD9 outputs into the best available Addictive input (because none of the maps I found on the web matched exactly). There is still a problem with the chokes, which my eDrum currently processes correctly but adds a flood of panic-type messages that creates a tremendous crash on every piece of the drum kit if I ever choke, which I currently must avoid, and the very responsive author of eDrums (for $10 you should just buy it) is looking into it. But everything else seems to work pretty well.]

    When I record the TD9 to the audio and MIDI tracks simultaneously, the audio is in perfect sync with everything else (e.g. the click track). However, the MIDI is always delayed. I'm not sure of the exact amount, because I keep changing things trying to get rid of it, but it's probably about 1/4 to 1/8 of a second. It sounds awful. It's possible to turn 'snap' off, and just slide the midi file left to be where it should be, but it's a pain if there are lots of overlapping takes and doesn't seem like it should be necessary.

    It does seem that it is the MIDI that is late in where it is recorded in Cubase, because I can actually play the drums during recording using headphones that are fed with the Addictive Drum feed, and while I *think* I can feel a little weird timing, the latency is low enough that I can still play fine. So if the drum data can get through the TD9, through the Saffire interface, through eDrum and LoopBe to AD, then back out through Cubase to the Saffire to the headphones, and there is almost no perceptible delay, then I don't understand what would make what Cubase records for the MIDI track so much later. I don't think I'm quantizing (and don't want to quantize that much to drag things forward into place).

    I notice several other people are recording audio and MIDI from Roland TD-type boxes, adjusting the MIDI, and then 'rendering' it by sending the MIDI back to the box. I would think if there's a problem in MIDI being sync'd to audio that those folks might experience it too... or maybe it's unique to the Addictive Drum setup some how?

    So: What might cause MIDI to be recorded way out late of sync with audio?

    Thank you for a great site, and even more for any insight you have into this weird problem!

  • #2
    Sorry, I have no advice. I'm just bumping this because I'd also like to see if anyone has an answer for you.


    • #3
      why are you using a virtual midi port?


      • #4
        is your direct monitoring enabled?


        • #5
          Not to hijack, but I was wondering if anyone knew a resolution to this, because I'm recording MIDI and syncing to recorded audio for the first time, and am experiencing this same issue with Cubase 5.

          It's shifted by a beat or two (exactly 2 beats @120bpm, my recorded tempo), so I can just shift the MIDI back, but I'm curious as to know why this is occurring. When I make a pad strike, Cubase sees it immediately, so I don't think the Roland Module is outputting it delayed... but for some reason there is a shift when recording, and therefore does not sync to the click. The Recorded Audio (simultaneously) syncs to click perfectly...

          Ideas? I am not 'monitoring' the MIDI while recording.. just enabled Record on it, and then am playing it back once finished to test it out.
          Audio and Video at


          • #6
            I know nobody's had any advice for you, and I don't know if this is an option for you to try, but...

            I'm using Reaper and have no audio or MIDI latency problems.
            I record my vdrums as MIDI along to a guide track. When I play it back, the guide track and the MIDI track sent to my vdrums to produce audio all play perfectly in sync.


            • #7
              A possibility:

              How to remove MIDI recording delay in Cubase

              If Cubase is consistantly recording your MIDI tracks with a delay, meaning that the whole segment is delayed by half a bar, you'll be relieved to know you're not the only one!

              You'll be even happier to know that you should be able to fix it by going to

              Devices > Device Setup

              Then ticking the Use System Timestamp option under both DirectMusic and Windows MIDI.




              • #8
                I had a similar problem, which I outlined in detail here:


                And after several other users ran similar tests, we discovered latency/delay is just inherit in using a midi module.

                One thing I've figured out, is if you record midi from your TD module, then run the recorded midi track back out to trigger sounds out of the module, you'll get a double latency, the latency from the recording and the latency from going back into the module.

                Of course, I had been doing just this (sending the midi back out) for years without noticing a huge problem, but as DAWs get faster and faster, midi has a hard time keeping up.

                I've taken to putting a mic on my snare pad, and recording that as a reference point. Then it's easy enough to adjust the triggers sounds to line up to the actual hits. A time consuming process for sure, a pain the rear, but latency seems to be fact of life.