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  • Band rehearsals - 4 monitor mixes?

    What would/do you guys do to get different monitor mixes for a band.

    I'm thinking all in headphones (I have a 4 way headphone amp)

    I have a small desk to line everything in (but it only has 2 outs and no aux sends)

    Do I need a whopping great big desk in order to get 4 monitor mixes (aux sends), or is there another way?

    btw I have been researching this for a while but alas... I'm still unsure

    Thanks in advance
    Cheers
    Paul

  • #2
    you'd need one of these. However, I believe they're discontinued so happy hunting!

    Comment


    • #3
      I assume you are talking about the monitors for everyone in the band. What you need is a small desk that has four aux sends. It only needs to have as many channels as there are instrument inputs for your band. Each person would be assigned an aux channel to set their own mix. From there each person needs a headphone amp, like a Presonus HP4 to feed the headphones. You could use a matrix amp, like the Mackie that was suggested, but you still need to be able to mix signals into it.

      It is the same approach as a big touring group, but can be done on a smaller budget. The HP4s are under $100 each new. I would hit ebay and look for a used Mackie 1604 desk (it's not that big) and headphone amps. You should be able to get it used at a reduced price. Then if you play live, you just use the faders for the main feed and leave the aux sends alone for the monitors. If you want to add reverb for vocals, you just need another aux or buss to feed the unit.

      This approach will make all of your gigs sound and function the same in terms of monitors. All you need to do is EQ the sound system for the hall.

      John

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      • #4
        I have a small PA for around town gigs and I use a Yamaha 01V for FOH and monitors. The 01V has four aux sends that I use for Monitors that gives 4 seperate mixes that have 4 band parameteric EQ , Compression ,FX ect.
        The 01V has pretty good built in FX so I don't need outboard gear for FOH mix . Everyone uses inear monitors and runs direct for insturments so it works pretty good for what it's setup to do simple and fast setup..


        Zeke

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        • #5
          ige87 - Thanks, I'm gutted

          John - I have one of these http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/HA4700.aspx what would I use with it to get the "more me" function? Is it a gimic? Is a 4 bus desk what I really need? The 1604 is a big ol' beast! LOL If I could get something smaller that would be great... EDIT it looked massive but the spec sheet says its only 17" x 17" x 5" (approx) thats better

          zekedrum - thats been discontinued too - looks kinda complicated. The dudes in the band need analog all the way - they wouldn't know where to start - neither would I for that matter LOL
          Last edited by pchanning; 01-08-09, 05:37 PM.
          Cheers
          Paul

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ige87 View Post
            you'd need one of these. However, I believe they're discontinued so happy hunting!
            Ditto that. I have one and will never part with it. Why Mackie discontinued this perfect solution is one of the mysteries of the Universe, IMO.
            Id rather be told the ugly truth than handed a pretty lie.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey pchanning,

              You really need one of those whopping big desks you referred to in your first post. You also need heaps of snakes and some normalled patch panels.

              Do you want to take this setup on the road or is is strictly for your rehearsal studio? Consider using your PC with a Delta 1010LT card and Reaper instead of a h/w mixer if all you want is a headphones mix.

              Comment


              • #8
                Pchanning-

                Keep in mind, if you use a mixing desk for monitoring(which is an excellent choice), not only do you need 4 auxes for 4 discrete mixes, ALL of those auxes MUST be PRE-FADER. It is possible to get 4 discrete mixes from the Mackie 1604 mentioned earlier, but because auxes 3 and 4 are post-fader, it is necessary that the channel faders be positioned at unity gain(almost all the way up) for the signal to be routed to them at the same level that the PRE auxes see. This method is more than usable, HOWEVER... You will then be unable to use the main L-R outs as a house sound feed, as any fader adjustments(to make the house mix sound the way you want) will ALSO be heard by the musicians using mixes 3 and 4. A simpler way to say this is that the level of the sound heard in mixes 1 and 2 is UNCHANGED by the fader position. Make sense?

                To do what you want correctly, you need a board with 4 PRE auxes. Look into a used Allen & Heath Mix Wizard. Better than Mackie in every way. Better mic preamps, better EQ section, 4 PRE auxes plus built-in FX(this will let you mix your mons and mains from one board), much better build quality, etc... Oh, and it doesn't say Mackie on it. In my book, Mackie is just a small step better than Bheringer, which is just a small step above garbage. Sure, it costs a little more. That's why I suggest used. After all, hasn't everyone learned to save up and buy the right stuff the first time? <-- (read: GAS)
                *TDW-20* KD-8 w/Iron Cobra single, PD-125, PD-80R, VH-11, PD-8(X3), CY-12R/C, CY-8(X2), older MDS-6 rack with additional lower crossbar for support, Roc 'n' Soc Nitro, ATH-M50 and MDR-7506

                Life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think...

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                • #9
                  Id suggest the yamaha 01v too look on ebay theyre about 300 a lot cheaper than a mixer and $100 headphone amp each. the 01v isnt that complicated the faders are just used for whatever screen your in, make sense?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In america - http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories

                    in Uk - http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_t...All-Categories

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [Is a 4 bus desk what I really need? ]

                      Yes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wow, thanks guys, much appreciated. Its tricky navigating this new territory!

                        Soundofmind you are a legend, the pre-post fade thing is clear to me now thanks as I never understood that I'm watching some of those Allen & Heath desks on the bay - cheers

                        jay and zekedrum - that 01V is looking like it might be quite intuitive to use and I like the idea of in-built effect and dynamic processing. plugging in a recorder would be beneficial to hear stuff back.

                        So I'm leaning towards the digital route. Is the 01V a sound robust piece of kit? Should I consider others? Cost efficient ones are good LOL but I would rather pay once and cry once if I have too!

                        Thanks again guys!
                        Last edited by pchanning; 01-09-09, 02:47 PM.
                        Cheers
                        Paul

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's my take on digital vs. analog

                          Digital (O1V) is a great way to go. Small footprint. Tons of built-in onboard processing (compressors, reverb). True snapshot repeatability. Being able to recall settings can be a life saver when time is short, or if you play different venues often enough that it becomes a hassle to remember "that one EQ curve which made the kick sound AWESOME in Club XYZ".
                          The downsides can be daunting, however. Firstly, because of its small control surface, many buttons and all faders become "multi-purpose". You are required to "page through" menus, staring at a tiny monochrome screen, furiously twirling a jog wheel to adjust parameters.

                          That's why I generally prefer an analog board. The knobs are always in the same place(Kinda like a few bars I've been to...) and you don't have to check what "mode" the console is in prior to making an adjustment. The analog board NEVER changes, which can be a benefit. Example:

                          You are mixing the band from behind the drums. The lead singer turns around to indicate she would like more vocal in her mix. In the dark, you squint your tired eyes and grope the control surface to find the appropriate aux selector button, all while trying to keep the beat. After you finally find the correct button, the board now "switches" to monitor mode for her mix. You make the change just in time to nail "that tough drum fill". As you bask in confidence as to how well you played, you quickly forget that the board is in monitor "mode" when you make a change to what you think is the house sound. End result? You have changed the lead singer's mix, causing, at the very least, her to be mad at you... And at the very worst, screaming feedback or broken drivers....

                          Total elapsed time: way to long for a live environment.
                          Total headache level: Potentially huge.

                          I know this is a complete disaster scenario, but I've seen it happen. Let's look at another possibility...

                          You are mixing, she turns around. You reach for the physical aux pot that's ALWAYS IN THE SAME PLACE on your analog console, and turn it up one number. Lead singer smiles because she hears the monitor change immediately and you have plenty of time to catch the eye of "that cute waitress", order another beer, do a drumstick twirl, nail the fill, and ride off into the sunset...

                          Total elapsed time: 10 seconds.
                          Total headache level: What?! You just rocked the Casbah, AND you're a hero to the band...

                          I believe I have made my point....

                          BTW - I have used both analog and digital desks during my tenure. I find it funny that many successful digital consoles are the ones that mimic the features native to an analog!

                          BTW2 - Digital may be a great option for you, just remember

                          "It may be hard to see the locomotive through all of the bells and whistles."
                          Soundofmind, January 9, 2009
                          *TDW-20* KD-8 w/Iron Cobra single, PD-125, PD-80R, VH-11, PD-8(X3), CY-12R/C, CY-8(X2), older MDS-6 rack with additional lower crossbar for support, Roc 'n' Soc Nitro, ATH-M50 and MDR-7506

                          Life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            LOL a very eloquent and picturesque pair of descriptions. I can totally see where you are coming from and I would go analog live cos I would have to show off for the hotties, screw the monitor mix, sing louder luv hahahaaa

                            However, this is gonna be all through headphones at my house, just a way to rehearse with the band/ jam with people in convenience, so changes should be minimal and in good time.

                            Cheers though, that cracked me up.
                            Cheers
                            Paul

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have used the 01V since they came out and never had a problem .The newer version is the 01V 96 which I think is 24 bit . I like the digital consoles because you can save mixes and when you return to a room you just recall your mix. When you run direct with everything including drums once you set everything it make life allot easier getting a good mix fast . Allot touring acts are using digital consoles now of atleast heading that way .
                              I agree they take alittle more thinking to setup but as long as you remember you always have tell it what you want and your on the proper scene they are a great tool ..
                              For the money I think the 01V (used)or the 01V 96 are a great buy for the money ...

                              Zeke

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