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  • MultiTrack recording question

    Hi all, I have started to record with my TD-8 on a V-Custom and was wondering how others record using a 16 track Hard-Disk Multitrack recorder? I see that the back panel has direct out and master outs (L & R) is there a way to get more than two channels recorded? I would like to use 4 channels (Bass,snare,toms,cymbals) and cant seem to figure this out. Should I be using MIDI? and if so how is this done? I do understand how midi works a small bit but havent really dove into it a whole bunch yet.

    Also as a side note, I have been wondering how others do there recordings, I play guitar,Bass,Drums & keyboard and was wondering what practice should I use for laying down tracks? should I first lay down a scratch guitar track or try to put the drums in first? I have been having a hard time with this mostly due to timing. When I tried laying down a scratch guitar track, it would throw me off when I would try to play the drums to it. (My timimg is much better on the drums than playing guitar I guess?

    Any helpful tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

    LJedik

  • #2
    My Fostex VF-16 Multitrack recorder has this built in. I have been just using this as my guide but I noticed when I output it to my TD-8 then record direct, the click track bleeds in thru the "Mix in" Im starting to think it was easyier to just mic my old Acoustic set, that way I knew what mic went to what channel. This is confusing!

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    • #3
      You could also record the midi. That means that you're recording the notes you're playing and the time of when you played those notes. Then you can record the audio later, with as much tracks as you want. You can also easily do a part over or remove mistakes.

      I don't completely understand you, but it seems that you're giving your TD8 the click track sound via some audio-in of the TD8. Then it indeed records the clicktrack again. You should plug the headphone/speakers in the Fostex instead of the TD8. Then the clicktrack doesn't go into the TD8. Problem solved (I think ).

      Tom

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      • #4
        Originally posted by c. jude:
        Start by creating a click track.
        This must be the shortest response the good Dr has EVER posted!!!
        (You feeling sick buddy?)
        Steve

        'I only ever quote myself - except when I quote someone else' - me

        , plenty of , and , , triggered acoustics, , and a plethora of PA blah blah freakin blah...I mean does anyone care about the specifics of pedals, speakers, processors, hardware or anything that I'm using?? :confused: Hmmm, maybe this is an appropriate place to mention that I tried out a new cymbal stand the other day...

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        • #5
          LOL Yes, I'm not always so economical.
          ...And I get the bad end of the deal!


          When I say I'm using the click trackof my recorder, I'm saying that I'm listening to it as if it were a cd I was playing along with. It doesnt record.

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          • #6
            I guess I'm just not used to playing to a click. I dont see how one can really get the feel of a song by going to a click. I need to lay down the guitar first so I have a foundation in which to build upon.

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            • #7
              <BEGIN SOAPBOX>

              Learn to play WITH a click not TO a click.

              Sure, there are some songs where a click will ruin the feel or it can make a slow down or speedup nearly impossible to do, but if you really get the feel of CORRECT time, the feel of the tune will follow and be in time. Also, practicing, if not recording, to a click will help you have better natural time in the log run, so in the future, your playing will work as though a click were going.

              Drums are the foundation of the music and need to be solid...no wavering about.

              It is my opinion that until you can stick to a click like glue, there is no place to be saying that you don't like a click track. The click is your friend and should make you know you're right rather than making you feel like you're locked donw.

              <END SOAPBOX>

              redbrick
              My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

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              • #8
                Thanks c.Jude, Redbrick & Steve for your kind words and wisdom. I guess I just need to re-think my approach to recording. I am fairly new as I've always had a engineer doing all the guess work and I just played. I've always played guitar to drums or drums to a guitar.(at least a scratch track) I will practice playing WITH a click track and take all considerations into account for what I'm trying to accomplish.
                I dont want to fall victim of being an engineer and not a musician.

                Thanks again

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                • #9
                  If you don't like a click track try programing a drum loop . I always program loops for feel purpose it has alot more feel and you can dump it to one track too. Make the loop the same feel as the song you are recording Alot of the time the engineer or the indiviual I am tracking for does the programing for me and I ask them to use congas or a shaker with a Tamborine instead of a kick & snare groove. I agree clicks are kinda dry and lifeless I try not to use just a click. Well there's my 2 cents.

                  [This message has been edited by zekedrum (edited March 28, 2002).]

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                  • #10
                    I'm just now looking into a controller with mesh heads (which feels much more real than my TrapKat), so I've been hesitant to actually "play" drum parts, as opposed to going through some edit epic. That being the case, I'm going to answer your question about what tracks to lay down first based on my pre-MIDI experiences. I also play drums, bass, guitars & keys on tracks, and I tended to play first whichever track I had the most natural feel for.

                    For instance, on many songs, I knew what the drums were going to do through the song, so I would lay drums down first. I should say, though, that no matter what I laid down first, if the song had a pop tempo (no changes in tempo), I'd lay down a click track either first or simultaneously. That way, I still got my natural flux and groove, which all drummers/players have, but it was averaged out over an absolute tempo. This "click" track, more often than not, was a very simple one measure drum part with hi-hat, kick & snare, and maybe something like a cowbell on quarter notes. If it was basic enough, it would interfere with any syncopation that might seem a little at odds with the click measure.

                    I tend to think of songs as keyboard based or guitar based, and sometimes my first played track would be a rhythm guitar that captured the song's feel even if I didn't use it in the mix or only used it part of the time). Other times, a piano track seemed to flow out best, and it would go first. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if I started half of them with drums. The kicks, upbeats, chokes, dynamics... all of that made a very comfortable base for the rest.

                    With MIDI, I have a blend of the old ways and the new. Frankly, I like the old way MUCH better. If possible, I'd only use MIDI for remembering patches. I like real-time, and I've never heard MIDI playback that sounds like real-time... even with quantize OFF and with 960 PPQN. That may have been fixed with some of the new MIDI timing conventions such as those by Steinberg or MOTU's MIDI interface for use with Digital Performer. If they are accurate, I'd probably just record to tape (disc) and to MIDI at the same time. That way if I wanted to change the sound, I'd still have the performance.

                    Anyway, I think it helps to mix things up, and that is one reason I got into altering the first track laid based strictly on feel. As I get mesh heads and hopefully, a way for better MIDI timing, I may find myself back to the old ways, which tended to give me better, more natural recording results.

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                    • #11
                      Great response, Doc. I really like that idea of doing a scat track as opposed to a guide guitar....cool idea!

                      I also like using loops whenever possible to record drum parts to...I just like the feel better and it's easier to find the one for some reason.

                      ------------------
                      Dan's Music Site; melodic, ethereal rock and more! Please have a listen :^)
                      Dan's Music Site; melodic, ethereal rock and more! Please have a listen :^)

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