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Understanding Mimic Routing and Multi-Track Options

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  • Understanding Mimic Routing and Multi-Track Options

    Based on several emails I've gotten since I put out our Origins expansion, manual & QuickStart Guide, it seems a lot of light-bulbs are going off regarding routing and multi-tracking options in the Mimic Pro. So, I wanted to create a sticky for people to easily get ideas and a better understanding of those options.


    First, let's understand the Mimic's limitations...

    The Mimic offers an internal recorder, Main L/R outs via I/O 1/2, Midi I/O, and 14 channels of Direct Outs. This leads to a multitude of options.


    Some other limitations to note...

    While the Phones and Main I/O are identical in their drum mix (assuming the mixers are close to identical), your Aux-In does not run to the Mains. The internal recorder gives you the option to record with or without the Aux-In.

    Additionally, while the KIT FX sends to the Mains, Phones, and internal recorder, it DOES NOT send to the direct outs.


    About the KIT FX...

    The KIT FX tab should be thought of as your "Mastering Channel". Some will refer to this as the "Master Bus", or simply, "Master". In the mastering world, compression and EQ are often applied in this final step. This is what your KIT FX tab is emulating. Thus, it sends the result to your "master" mixes. (Master & Phones) It does not, however, send to direct outs.


    About the Direct Outs...

    The direct outs should be viewed simply as the "instrument channels". This means that all the modeling/mixing you do to that instrument, BEFORE the KIT FX, is what is being sent through that direct out channel. Thus, at your DAW, it will not encompass any added effect of the KIT FX channel.

    Sadly, it is fairly impossible to separate the KIT FX into its own channel. This is why you do not see routing inside the Mimic for getting the KIT FX to your DAW.


    Replicating the KIT FX in your DAW...

    Here's the good news! It is very simple to replicate your KIT FX (mastering) in your DAW by simply emulating the settings you see in the KIT FX tab on your Mimic!

    The plugins we all use differ. Therefore, you apply the compressor and EQ plugins of your choice to your DAW master drum bus, and copy the settings from your KIT FX tab into the plugins. From there, you'll desire to do a little tweaking of those settings to make up for any difference between your plugin and the Mimic's


    Finally, I am including a screenshot from our QuickStart Guide which outlines a typical optimized home/studio recording scenario.

    Hope this helps and inspires you all to experiment!

    [will edit later for errors]

    routing.PNG
    Attached Files
    Alan
    _________________________________________
    visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

  • #2
    I just added this reply in another topic, but thought it was a good explanation of how to think about Mimic's internal mixing, and its use with external recording and direct sends to DAW or FOH applications. (edited for relevance)

    Originally posted by Alan VEX View Post
    ...I asked myself when I started development what would be the optimum internal mix design for common best options. Mixer consistency turned out to be the most important factor. You'll see why in a moment.

    Common and consistent mixer levels leaves all your true mixing at the instrument level within the module. This is needed simply because of how effects can affect various instruments. (think of plugin sends in a recording situation)

    By taking such approach, it gives you the most even output across everything for multiple applications when sending to all sources - phones, mains and or direct outs - to an external system. I decided this was my ultimate goal regarding I/O. (I also ran a lot of DAW testing this time due to the expectation of how many users that swapped to the Mimic will likely record with it)

    If you think about all that for a while, you'll understand why I chose this route. Additionally, think of it as one big studio drum-bus in a box. You have your mix (instrument channels) being sent to a bus. (main/phones mixers) This bus is one even channel. (in a way, and like a drum bus in a recording session) So, all your outputs become consistent for sending to anything outside the module - whether that be a DAW, FOH, etc.
    Alan
    _________________________________________
    visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Alan,

      I have been struggling with the Mimic Pro internal recorder. I currently use the recorder with the AUX IN playing my backing track.The mix sounds great whilst playing out of my headphones, but then the backing track is too loud in the recorder. The drums sounds different from the headphone mix as well. So questions:

      1. Does the internal recorder take the master mix for the drum sounds?
      2. Is it then the best to replicate my master mix with the headphone mix (as I would like to record exactly what I am hearing)
      3. To increase the sound of the mimic on the internal recorder, should I first change the Master mix, then control the AUX in volume?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by subsash View Post
        Hi Alan,

        I have been struggling with the Mimic Pro internal recorder. I currently use the recorder with the AUX IN playing my backing track.The mix sounds great whilst playing out of my headphones, but then the backing track is too loud in the recorder. The drums sounds different from the headphone mix as well. So questions:

        1. Does the internal recorder take the master mix for the drum sounds?
        2. Is it then the best to replicate my master mix with the headphone mix (as I would like to record exactly what I am hearing)
        3. To increase the sound of the mimic on the internal recorder, should I first change the Master mix, then control the AUX in volume?
        This is actually one of the reasons I chose the specific mixer setup I have for the VEX expansions. You may want to adjust your mixers for consistency. See my QuickStart Guide to see what I'm talking about: http://vexpressionsltd.com/manuals/PM_QUICKSTART.pdf

        I believe the Aux-In is purely controlled (volume-wise) by the Home Page AUX INPUT. You would need to optimize both your input source, and this AUX INPUT slider with your Phones Mixer. This is why I chose the levels I did in the guide I pointed to. So, I would suggest adjusting as I outline in the QS Guide, adjusting your instrument mics individually as needed for those mixer settings, and then optimizing the external source and AUX INPUT.

        For instance, with my iPad, I input at nearly 100%. (about two bars short of it) Then, I adjust my Aux Input slider for overall volume. Finally, I adjust my Headphones slider to mix well for my monitoring. This is all AFTER I've setup my instruments>Mixers for consistency. It is the mixer settings in my guide that help achieve a good mix at the internal recorder. (and Main/Direct outs) All other volume adjustments should be handled at the instrument mic level.

        So, if you use my guide as a reference, I think you'll see an improvement. Simply tweak as needed from that starting point.
        Alan
        _________________________________________
        visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Alan, this helped. In the end, I did not see much changing with the Aux input slider, but more from the volume of the input source itself. Works perfectly now!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by subsash View Post
            Thanks Alan, this helped. In the end, I did not see much changing with the Aux input slider, but more from the volume of the input source itself. Works perfectly now!!
            Yea, it's been a while since I tested that to see how it works. The Aux slider may simply be sent to the headphones themselves. Whatever comes in may be what goes to the recorder. Sounds like it anyway.
            Alan
            _________________________________________
            visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes....THAT is how the internal recorder works on the MIMIC, the volume control of the AUX IN source is controlled ONLY from the feed ( Laptop, iPhone, iPad and so on ) and not from the AUX slider on the homepage, which controls only the volume of the incoming music in your headphones.

              Comment


              • #8
                This is good info Alan. I just orderd a HOSA xlr to DB25 snake should be here in a few days. Heres my dilemma. We use a 16channel board. there are only 7 free inputs and sometimes only 6. I always have at least 6 channels for drums.

                What would you recommend for live stage use with only 7 channels?

                Im planning to route using only the outs from the DB25 connector. Since that has 8 and I can only use 7. But please let me know if that's not the way to go. I havn't even begun touching the routing options yet. waiting for the snake.

                My plan until told otherwise

                main outs to 7/8
                Kick to 9
                Snare to 10( I also use a side snare that I use my own samples for handclaps/808/bassdrops etc that I plan to route to this channel as well.)
                HH to 11
                Ride to 12
                Toms to 13
                I was just going to let the Crashes be heard in the Main outs? I've never played out using Direct Outs so I don't know what to expect here.

                The gig Im shooting for using this scenario is 2 weeks away. If I can't get this working perfect Im just going to stick with acoustics for this gig so no biggie, but I really want this to work. In rehearsal so far Im using only 2 main outs, it sounds great. But I know this won't work for this gig.

                if you don't want me cluttering up this thread I can ask this in it's own thread. I never know where to post things. lol
                Last edited by Roving Drummer; 05-17-18, 12:55 PM.
                Noble & Cooley acoustics. Paiste cymbals.
                Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think that will work. Just keep in mind you lose any KIT FX on Direct Outs... but that can be easily added back at FOH as desired. This will be any Comp or EQ added in the KIT FX tab.

                  I'll give this some thought; but yea, you're pretty limited with only 6 or 7 channels.
                  Alan
                  _________________________________________
                  visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll be using the Vex Colaitu kit with small tweaks to different versions. One version has an 808 kick as a layer. the orignail kick is still there just a booming 808 over it. Sounds awesome. One has Handclaps on the side snare with tamborine on the rim, One has a 808 side snare with basedrop on the on the rim. etc.. but basically the the main kit is the same for all versions. So I wont' be changing Toms, HH, Ride or crashes at all thru out the gig.

                    So I'll basically lose the sounds that you've created and I love? Im going to have to wait until this cable comes in and see what it sounds like.

                    thanks for the input.
                    Noble & Cooley acoustics. Paiste cymbals.
                    Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yea, if you have a DAW/interface or just a small board you can run into something that records, just experiment with the routing to your computer/device. I don't remember off the top of my head if there are kit fx on that kit. (there most likely are) The EQ can be easily reproduced by your sound engineer at the board. (it's likely just a small shelf bump in the HF & LF. (>8k and <63) You'll lose any comp from the kit fx, but this will likely not get missed much at the gig. Your engineer may be able to reproduce it if he has the additional compressor to run on the entire drum mix.

                      Alan
                      _________________________________________
                      visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        thanks for the tips. I can follow those instructions. just need that snake now.

                        this is what I have access to. I have a Allen & Heath mixwizard in my basement that we use for practice, with qsc k8s and a kw1811. I don't have an interface to record multi track. I was all set up with my td15 and SD3 so I never needed one. its on my list. My guitar play just got a Berringher X Air Digital desktop that we're planning on using at the upcoming gig. Our sound guy has a qsc Touch mix. thats what we usually use at gigs.

                        the X air will be at rehearsal next week. We'll make it work.

                        thanks again.



                        Noble & Cooley acoustics. Paiste cymbals.
                        Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Do not use phantom with mimic you can burn it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Chris, I'll be sure to not use phantom power. I don't think I know how to use phantom power anyway. Is this something I can accidentally do?

                            Alan, you reference that KIT FX don't send to the Direct Outs. What about the MIC FX? Does that send?

                            Noble & Cooley acoustics. Paiste cymbals.
                            Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              KIT FX is the only thing you cannot send out.

                              It's effects that are applied to the entire mix... thus, there is no way to send from a module - without that option being designed into the platform. It would normally be an option through a separate buss in a true DAW/console situation, but not on the Mimic.
                              Alan
                              _________________________________________
                              visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

                              Comment

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