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How to record multitracks with Mimic Pro

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  • How to record multitracks with Mimic Pro

    there is someone, very patient, who can explain to me, in very simple words (since I am not an English native), how can I record a drum section from my MImic Pro, taking out a file with all the separate tracks? and what kind of tools to use (my computer is a Mac Book Pro).
    Thanks
    Yamaha stage custom birch A to E kit, triggers by R-drums, Roland cymbals, Vh-11 HH, Mimic Pro.

  • #2
    I'm not sure individual channels can be sent to the internal recorder; but if they could/can, that would take an enormous amount of time (around 14-16 play-throughs of a performance, and routing changes), and you'd have to play the exact same thing every single time.

    You'll want to run the direct out to a DAW instead. You can separate everything (BD & SN layer will have to piggy-back on the BD & SN channels, unless you do two midi passes), but the maximum you can get out is 14 channels at a time. If you're still interested, I can try to outline it all. (I just set this all up last week) Keep in mind you cannot get the KIT FX out, so it will sound quite different than your phones/main mixes. (much drier) You can run the overs/rooms out in stereo track; but to compensate for the KIT FX, you'll have to run a comp and EQ fx plugin(s) to bring it back to your phone/main mix.

    You should experiment to see what I am talking about.
    Alan
    _________________________________________
    visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Alan, I really appreciate your answer, but I can not understand exactly everything you've written. Imagine that I am a child who does not know how to walk and needs to be followed step by step. My goal would be: play a drum session, record or transfer a multitrack file to a computer and mix it with DAW software (cubase, pro tool or others) with which to work on the individual elements of the kit (compression, equalization, volumes, etc.).
      Forgive my ignorance in this area ..... but this is ..... unfortunately!
      Yamaha stage custom birch A to E kit, triggers by R-drums, Roland cymbals, Vh-11 HH, Mimic Pro.

      Comment


      • #4
        You cannot route individual tracks from a single performance to the internal recorder. You would have to mute everything you're not recording for a single track, and play the exact same performance around 12-16 times, while selectively muting/unmuting other instruments/effects, and save each internal recording to your USB stick. I highly advise against this, as it simply won't work in the end due to timing and mistakes... not to mention start points of each wav exported. That will take a LOT of alignment time in the DAW.

        You could theoretically record a midi performance out to a DAW, and run it to the module to play the same performance over and over as you capture individual tracks to the internal mixer in the manner I described above. This would require muting all but 1 or 2 channels at a time. (1 for instruments, 2 for stereo effects) This would also require panning everything appropriately. (not counting the stereo effects sends)

        If you want to do individual tracks live, you're going to have to buy an interface with around 14-16 channels and midi (Roland Studio Capture is about the only one out there, without fighting USB conflicts for multiple alike interfaces), and either record everything in at once, or record the midi, and do 2-3 passes to record the individual tracks. It is possible to get something like a Focusrite Scarlett (maybe a 18i8), and record the midi - then run a couple of passes to record the individual tracks. (running passes means sending the midi to the module, and recording a single track from the 3-14 outs the Mimic offers... however, this is very time consuming... but will align in the DAW instantly)

        The most simple route you could take is to get something like a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 that has midi I/O and 4 balanced ins. This could accomplish what I said in the second paragraph. It's just going to take numerous passes to accomplish. The 18i8 would be smarter at about 2-3 passes max.

        My personal recommendation for what you're trying to accomplish would be to get a Roland Studio Capture (best bang for the buck), and simply record live tracks (up to 14 the Mimic offers, plus midi and mains L/R) all at once. (simply for reference) You can use the mains to compare DAW plugins, if you're trying to match any internal module processing. Otherwise, produce as you wish with the passes you captured.

        Here's a chart of options I made when I was thinking about all this. This was assuming I was going to use an 18i8, or two. I ended up returning it, and getting a Roland Studio Capture... but there are plenty of options on the market to consider. You just have to verify any 8 I/O interface can be doubled. The Focusrites cannot. You can only expand them with a different unit. (ie: OtcoPre) I wanted to work with a single I/O and 16 live channels.

        (see the lower chart for how I run if I'm doing video at the same time)

        myoptions.PNG

        ...and here's how I run (when doing video)...

        myroute.PNG

        I record samples for VEX via the internal mixer, so customers know exactly what they are getting. It's a simple live performance.

        For video accompaniment, I run Main L/R with the VOX/K. (voice-over at the kit) This gives me tracks I can easily sync to video.

        I don't run midi because I don't like doing passes. I do live multi-tracking via a Roland Studio Capture; which offers 16 ins. However, as outlined above, with midi, you have a ton of options.

        With live multi-tracking, keep in mind you will not get KIT FX. So, your overall comp and EQ will have to replicated in the DAW. (if you're attempting to "match" the module, but have individual tracks live) If you're wanting to do all production in a DAW, then a lot of this will be cut down.
        Alan
        _________________________________________
        visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          The above was HEAVILY edited from the original post. Just thought I'd bump.
          Alan
          _________________________________________
          visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow, Alan! .... it's a fantastic explanation! Now I think I have clearer ideas. Let me try to summarize what I have understood.
            I would have two solutions:

            1 - Record the live drum session in the DAW with a hardware (such as Roland Studio Recorder) and then mix the multitrack file in the DAW while keeping the sounds of the kit selected in the Mimic library. (things to buy: Roland Studio Recorder (or similar), DAW software (cubase, pro-tools, or similar).

            2 - Record the drum session through the MIDI output in the DAW with an audio interface (such as Focusrite 2i2, or Steimberg UR22, or similar), and then mix the MIDI file in the DAW using an external sound library (Steven Slate, Superior Drummer, or similar). (things to buy: audio interface, DAW software, sound library).

            Do you believe that my analysis is correct?
            Thanks for your help. Maybe I start to see the light at the end of the tunnel!
            Yamaha stage custom birch A to E kit, triggers by R-drums, Roland cymbals, Vh-11 HH, Mimic Pro.

            Comment


            • #7
              1 - That's pretty much it; except, if you record live, there is no more module use. So the "while keeping the sounds of the kit selected in the Mimic library" doesn't apply. (unless you meant recording the midi performance to pass tracks... but that would not be applicable with an interface/DAW capable of enough live recording channels like the Roland)

              2 - You said you wanted to capture the Mimic sound, not an external VST. (?) You wouldn't "mix the midi file". You would capture the midi performance at the DAW; then, you would send the midi performance back out to capture four live channels (at a time) with something like a 2i4. (2i2 will not work, as it does not have midi I/O) If you spring for the 18i8, you can get 8 channels in a pass. (check the tech specs to be sure though... some limit simultaneous channels) You can create all your channels at once in the DAW, but you'll only send and capture a certain amount from the Mimic at a time to tracks you will arm and record. That's all dependent on the interface and DAW abilities. This is where the 2-4 passes will come in.

              If you want to use an external VST, then there is no need for a Mimic. You'd do just as fine (better actually) using a TD-20, 30 or 50 to capture a midi performance, and then do all the rest in the DAW. However, this may depend on your pads and setup.

              So, your analysis is fairly close. You'll need something between a 2i4 and a Studio Capture. (2-16 channels) Personally, I found the Roland interface far more worth the money than piggy backing smaller, more expensive, rack mounts. If I were recording authentic live drums, I would have gone with something far different; but for e-kit usage, this is more than fine.

              You might want to try many of the DAW trials. I'm still using Reaper, but I haven't done any midi through it. Studio One 3 is nice too. The Artist version is worth a look. Personally, I didn't care for ProTools. Sonar was my DAW of choice, until they shut down; so I didn't want to go back to something not supported. Just know your needs, and verify the DAW you choose can accomplish it.
              Alan
              _________________________________________
              visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Well ... I think I will follow Roland Studio Capture's solution, I like it better. First, though, I will also try to learn how to use midi files, and especially how Mimic Pro manages their use.
                Alan, you have been very kind and helpful and for this I thank you.
                Enrico
                Yamaha stage custom birch A to E kit, triggers by R-drums, Roland cymbals, Vh-11 HH, Mimic Pro.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Alan,

                  I am in a similiar predicament, and would thus like to ask further questions. So, provided one uses the Roland Studio Capture solution, the entire performance (up to 16 tracks) could be recorded simultaneously to the DAW, correct?. Would your point on the KIT FX (quote below) then still apply? In this case, what does it mean to replicate the comp & EQ settings in the DAW? Would these not differ to the ones in the Mimic? I apologize, but I am also not an expert in this area. Thanks!

                  Originally posted by Alan VEX View Post
                  With live multi-tracking, keep in mind you will not get KIT FX. So, your overall comp and EQ will have to replicated in the DAW. (if you're attempting to "match" the module, but have individual tracks live) If you're wanting to do all production in a DAW, then a lot of this will be cut down.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Another solution could be to buy a mixer that is capable to record all tracks as a separate .wav-file. The Soundcraft Ui24R for example has this multitrack recording option (on a USB-stick and parallel to a DAW if you wish). You can use it as an audio interface, too. It's controllable via anything that has a browser (smartphone, tablet, computer, etc.), WIFI or LAN. And there are some tracks left, to record the rest of the band... ;-) If I remember right you can record 22 tracks simultaneously. The recorded tracks could be used in a DAW for further processing but the mixer has also some options to shape the sound.
                    Last edited by scheinriese; 02-14-18, 05:29 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The easiest thing to do is record your midi from Mimic into your computer. then play back the midi to the Mimic module and record smaller parts of the kit by turn, kick and snare first, then toms, then overheads etc....
                      Taking small studios, or older recording techniques as inspiration, you could probably get away with an 8 channel interface.
                      You would keep kick, snare and hi-hat separate, then output a stereo pair for the toms, and a stereo pair for overheads and room mics.
                      Many smaller studios do this. Again, you can record the midi, then send the recorded midi back to Mimic, so you can hear the sounds and balance them up properly before recording the sounds.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I spoke to one of the Mimic engineers at NAMM and he said ideally you should record the hi hat live from the module because it exceeds the Midi spec. He said everything else could be triggered through MIDI afterwards.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by subsash View Post
                          Hi Alan,
                          I am in a similiar predicament, and would thus like to ask further questions. So, provided one uses the Roland Studio Capture solution, the entire performance (up to 16 tracks) could be recorded simultaneously to the DAW, correct?. Would your point on the KIT FX (quote below) then still apply? In this case, what does it mean to replicate the comp & EQ settings in the DAW? Would these not differ to the ones in the Mimic? I apologize, but I am also not an expert in this area. Thanks!
                          Yes. The module is not capable of sending the KIT FX (consider this the final "master") out of any directs. It is only fed with the entire kit into the Main L/R on 1/2. You would have to recreate any processing you do in the KIT FX tab in your DAW. (Comp & EQ) So, in Reaper, I created a Drum Bus that controls any indy-mix (recorded individuals) I record, and added my Comp and EQ plugins here.
                          Alan
                          _________________________________________
                          visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scheinriese View Post
                            Another solution could be to buy a mixer that is capable to record all tracks as a separate .wav-file. The Soundcraft Ui24R for example has this multitrack recording option (on a USB-stick and parallel to a DAW if you wish). You can use it as an audio interface, too. It's controllable via anything that has a browser (smartphone, tablet, computer, etc.), WIFI or LAN. And there are some tracks left, to record the rest of the band... ;-) If I remember right you can record 22 tracks simultaneously. The recorded tracks could be used in a DAW for further processing but the mixer has also some options to shape the sound.
                            No need to when the solution he's looking at with his DAW does the same thing.
                            Alan
                            _________________________________________
                            visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Whitten View Post
                              The easiest thing to do is record your midi from Mimic into your computer. then play back the midi to the Mimic module and record smaller parts of the kit by turn, kick and snare first, then toms, then overheads etc....
                              Taking small studios, or older recording techniques as inspiration, you could probably get away with an 8 channel interface.
                              You would keep kick, snare and hi-hat separate, then output a stereo pair for the toms, and a stereo pair for overheads and room mics.
                              Many smaller studios do this. Again, you can record the midi, then send the recorded midi back to Mimic, so you can hear the sounds and balance them up properly before recording the sounds.
                              It's not his objective. He's trying to avoid this. We've already discussed all this.
                              Alan
                              _________________________________________
                              visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

                              Comment

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