Record TD-30 with Cubase 5 / Reaper - messy?

[CooRe]

Hey!

Today I have a Roland TD-30 and a laptop with Windows 7 64-bit, Cubase 5 and the Reaper (only used Cubase before).
I have previously recorded on a Zoom R16 but has now bought a laptop I plan to use for this.
I can hardly something about midi, either in Cubase or TD-30 and therefore have few questions I hope someone please help me with ...

1) Can I record the module sounds in Cubase or do I must use a VST when I connected the module to my computer?

2) Do I have to change some MIDI settings in the module?

3) Is there any guide or step by step for this?

4) What is the easiest to use, Cubase or Reaper?

When I tried, I have created a midi track, chosen TD-30 as output, set the bank 10 so have I heard myself in the headphones and have been able to record.
But when I turn off the module's sounds gone ...

If I must have a VST, I have seen that there are videos on Youtube about this.
If not, how do I get one track for each pad?

Thanks!

[MS-SPO]

Hi,

here is my view based on Presonus Studio One, while the program you use doesn't matter. Please check the TD-30 manuals for more details I'm talking about.


Principle of operation: internally TD-30 records events (pads hit when, where, how strong etc.) in a MIDI-like format, and calls it "pattern". MIDI or pattern aren't audible music, just a record about what happened. So TD-30 converts those records through its internal synthesizer into audible sound, e.g. for the "Rock Solid" drumkit. Those signals you can pick up e.g. through the output pins.


Recording audio with your DAW: That's not different from recording microphones or similar. Create an audio track in your DAW, connect TD-30 analog outputs to your computers analog inputs and record. However, this way you seriously limit your audio quality to the worst component in the signal chain, which usually is the Analog-to-Digital Converter (ADC) of your computer (adding noise, distortion etc.). [connection: analog cable(s)]

To overcome this TD-30 offers USB-audio in 24-bit quality. To use USB-audio install Rolands USB driver on your computer and connect TD-30 by a printer USB cable to your computer. Then you can record from TD-30 and replay on TD-30 in extremely good audio quality. [connection: USB cable]


MIDI: As MIDI is a record track of events, not sound, it most likely sounds different all the time: this happens, when you change the synthesizer you feed with your MIDI-data. Your observation sounds like when you connect TD-30 to your computer (probably over a MIDI-cable) it uses TD-30's internal synthesizer, while when you disconnect it it uses a different one (probably from your DAW). Synthesizer implementation and audible interpretation of MIDI-data do vary widely. [connection: MIDI cable]

Recording MIDI could be useful if you want to have (and may be process) the note values you played on TD-30. Use an instrument track in your DAW to record MIDI-data. You may need to adapt the mapping of MIDI-values to replayed sounds, later.


~~~ Ohter remarks ~~~

VST: As far as I understand VST uses a different approach. TD-30 sends some digital data in whatever format to your computer. The VST-program receives those data and compiles "audible" data from it and from its huge sampling base of acoustic drum sets. "Audible data" are probably in a digital audio format, which your DAW can receive and replay.


Audible data in the digital world: Before digital technology was invented things were simple: audio was analog audio. A signal (e.g. a voltage) varied over time in non-discrete steps, i.e. continuously. Period. The downside was added noise, distortions, phase delays etc. when transmitting analog signals through wires or by radio waves.

Digital technology is "dumb" in the sense of distinguishing only between 0 and 1 states (bits). So analog signals must be approximated, which is done by the ADC. Which means small/tiny variations in the analog signal are discarded (LSB, least significant bit) and the former analog signal is represented as a stream of bits. Several digital formats exist about how this stream should look like and how it should be (re-)interpreted by digital processors later.

So "Digital Audio" is close to "Analog Audio", but not identical. Technically it's a brilliant idea, with a bunch of accompanying nightmares when it comes to signal processing, e.g. as analog audio again for output purposes (folding of frequency bands, distortion, digital noise added, and many more; one remmedy is moving from 16-bit representation (CD-quailty) to 24-bit (which gives plenty of head room should the recording have been too low in volume)). The average user or hobbyist most likely won't recognize these subtleties, while the audio professionals do and may rate your recordings accordingly ; -)


So everything depends a little on what you want to achieve ; -)

Best, Michael

[Peter Warren]

Hey!

Today I have a Roland TD-30 and a laptop with Windows 7 64-bit, Cubase 5 and the Reaper (only used Cubase before).
I have previously recorded on a Zoom R16 but has now bought a laptop I plan to use for this.
I can hardly something about midi, either in Cubase or TD-30 and therefore have few questions I hope someone please help me with ...

1) Can I record the module sounds in Cubase or do I must use a VST when I connected the module to my computer?

2) Do I have to change some MIDI settings in the module?

3) Is there any guide or step by step for this?

4) What is the easiest to use, Cubase or Reaper?

When I tried, I have created a midi track, chosen TD-30 as output, set the bank 10 so have I heard myself in the headphones and have been able to record.
But when I turn off the module's sounds gone ...

If I must have a VST, I have seen that there are videos on Youtube about this.
If not, how do I get one track for each pad?

Thanks!

Do you have a recordimg interface/sound card? If you are using the td30 as your sound card,record the audio and midi. You can send the mIdi track to a VST or back out to your module. technically you coupd record the separate outputs 2 at a time by running the mIdi track to the module. You can do all 8 outputs at the same time if you have an 8 channel interface.
I think it is easier and much better sound quality to use a vst.

[mkok]

Seems there is some misunderstanding with VST. VST is a midi instrument just as the TD30 is or a keyboard. The only difference it is in software on the computer. You can record audio in the DAW or midi. Audio via a soundcard or using the TD30 built in soundcard ability. Midi is also through USB but via a virtual midi port. When midi is recorded it can be used to play any VST instrument or be directed out of the midi out to play hardware synths/drums.
So in Cubase you can set the midi input to any so capture all midi coming in or just select the relevant midi input. I think you need to read the manual and go look at the Cubase videos as trying to do a step by step guide would take a lot of time.

[CooRe]

Ok...

Thanks for the replies Michael, Peter Warren & mkok.

But, I still do not know what to do =)

Have no extra sound card to my laptop apart from the internal.
I do not want to record analog when I have a "drum computer".
And with a computer, it appears best to record with Superior Drummer for example?

Summary:

When I practice or want to play quickly, I use the TD-30 module.

When I recording digitally in the computer must / should I use DAW + VST.

Is this correct?

[MS-SPO]

I do not want to record analog when I have a "drum computer". ... When I recording digitally in the computer must / should I use DAW + VST.

You can use VST, but you don't have to.

To record analog the most straight forward way with best audio quality is:

• install Rolands USB-driver on your computer
• connect your computer and TD-30 with an USB-cable
• record analog (audio track or whatever the name is in your DAW) (through USB)
• replay from your DAW, or from MediaPlayer or similar audio programs on your TD-30 (through USB, to phones or speaker at TD-30).

It's absolutely simple and you already have everything you need, besides the USB driver ( http://roland.com/support/article/?q=downloads&p=TD-30 ) .

Best, Michael

[CooRe]

Thanks for the reply.
Aha, I'll try it!
It was exactly what I was wondering from the beginning if you could do
I'll even try VST later.

[CooRe]

It was very easy to play in this way and it sounded very good!
But Michael, I can get separate tracks in this way too? (Just got home from the drums so I can not test right now)

Another question, if I want to increase or reduce the input signal, I do it on the "gain" in the "setup" or is there a better way?

[MS-SPO]

Nice CooRe ; -)

But Michael, I can get separate tracks in this way too?

Do you mean recording each pad as an individual track?

If so: yes and no.

No: if you check the block diagram in the manual USB Audio Out is in parallel to (analog) Master Out. So USB outputs all channels at once after all internal sound processing, just like Master Out does to your speaker/headphone.

Yes: You can record your drumming as a pattern on TD-30, first. Next enable/disable channels to your need, replay the pattern on TD-30 and record this selection to your DAW (as an audio track). Repeat this step for other enable/disable combinations. This way you can record individual pads or bundles of pads as you desire.

Another question, if I want to increase or reduce the input signal, I do it on the "gain" in the "setup" or is there a better way?

Which signals do you have in mind? If you look through the manual TD-30 provides one or two dozen of settings which affect volume one way or the other. But may be "USB Audio Gain" is what you are after? I set mine to 0 dB (i.e. 1:1 amplification).

Best, Michael

[Peter Warren]

If you use VST samples you can control all the drum volumes afterwards plus mics per drum.

[perceval]

If you use VST samples you can control all the drum volumes afterwards plus mics per drum.

And overhead mics, and room mics, and compression, and EQ, and velocities, and .... Well, you get the point.

[CooRe]

If you use VST samples you can control all the drum volumes afterwards plus mics per drum.

And overhead mics, and room mics, and compression, and EQ, and velocities, and .... Well, you get the point.

I know! But it seems so difficult to get to work ...

[perceval]

Not too hard. But SD is powerful software, so there are some things to learn. Once you understand more, you can achieve any sound you have in your mind for your kit.

[CooRe]

Not too hard. But SD is powerful software, so there are some things to learn. Once you understand more, you can achieve any sound you have in your mind for your kit.

Toshiba Satellite L50D-C-16X (AMD Quad Core A4, 4GB RAM, Windows 7).

[perceval]

Ok, yesterday I tested both SD2 and AD2.
It was really fun!!!
Especially AD2 but I understand that SD2 is apparently better.
To bring order to all the settings so that both the sound and feel are good enough will take time ...?!

Yes, AD2 sounds are more "ready-out-of-the-box" than SD2, that sounds great at first, but I found it limited in my choices to get the sound I want.
SD2 has less "ready-to-drum" sounds (although some of their presets are ok) but more room to achieve the sound I was looking for.

Some thoughts, AD2 requires much more computer capacity than SD2?
Some sound issues regardless of the latency I used but with SD2 it worked much better.

Actually, it's the other way around. AD2 is lighter on the computer than SD2. More compressed and smaller sound files to deal with. Probably just some internal settings that were different between AD2 and SD2, like which sample rates was it set? 32, 64,128,... that's the one that affects latency the most.

Toshiba Satellite L50D-C-16X (AMD Quad Core A4, 4GB RAM, Windows 7).

Yes, the TD30 is also a sound interface. Read and get the USB driver from Roland's site.