Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

possibility of TDW-2

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • possibility of TDW-2

    make a guess...........
    will roland release TDW-2??
    or they will release a new modlue instead of the card??

  • #2
    steve at roland said there will be no tdw-2 but a td-12 type thing in its sted.

    Comment


    • #3
      If you look at the Roland synths then the expansion cards follow up eachother in quick tempo. Okay, the market for synths is far bigger than for e-drums, but if Roland would offer a second card, then they probably had done this a year ago or so.

      And what can be updated without adding a whole new system? I mean the TDW-1 already was a huge update. The next step will be full new hardware and software.
      Robert

      Comment


      • #4
        Methinks the drums will be the same, but the brain is sorely in need of a major updating/overhaul/replacement. godspeed, roland; i've got the do-re-mi to buy it, but i won't touch a v-session b/c no matter what you do, if you want to record with it it'll never sound better than an R-8 drum machine. And that ain't happening for 6 grand in 2003...

        Comment


        • #5
          everything sounds better than a drum machine imho.
          -i can levitate birds and no one cares-----------V-CONCERT,CY12H-CY15R/SPD-20-XP-60 V-STUDIO 1824CD,DAUZ PADS,NO RYTHYM AND MISC.CRAP 9"HART SPLASH/AKAI S5000/ASSLOAD OF SAMPLES

          Comment


          • #6
            Aside from the fact that you have the best "avatar"/animation thingie with the pac-man drinking what looks like root beer, I apologize but I didn't really understand your statement.

            There's another thread on here where one of the gents recorded his v-drums against a "drummerless track" he downloaded and posted it as a high-quality mp3. Joined by others linking to their mp3.com recordings featuring v-session, etc., there's a few reference points beyond just sitting in the store listening to the drums and thinking how great they are. I would love to hear more stuff that's been identified as being recorded with v-drums and, more importantly, actually uses the td-10 v-drums' internal sounds in the recording. From what I've heard so far, I have recordings where I played a Yamaha RY-30 drum machine with my fingers live to a click and it sounds as good or better, and that's not to deride anyone's sound-programming abilities or their playing; it's just the way they sound.

            I noticed on the new Shania Twain lp that most of the drums are samples and many others are apparently coming out of a DM-Pro (if you've owned an alesis drum box, you know that some of the company's sounds are as signature as any Roland analog from the 80's - you just need to know what to listen for...). Putting aside for a moment all the tiresome arguments about how Mutt Lange has all the time and money in the world to 'doctor up' his stuff in the studio, it remains that little in the td-10 or its expander card approaches the quality even of the dm-pro. Or am I missing something here?

            I think that the guy Chris with the wolf avatar makes some good points about ultimate sound quality for recording, etc. the v-drums. Then again, the v-drums seem to be more designed for drummers who live in apartments, etc. and want to play, and have the money to buy them. The v-drums, at least based on their sound quality as of their current incarnation, don't appear to be serious professional instruments. And a million lounge band drummers in Vegas will not convince me otherwise - even they sound like they're playing a drum machine, so the acoustic smearing of the live venues doesn't appear to achieve the naturalization of the sound one would hope for.

            In my opinion, Roland should offer either one or the other solution (or both in one device without compromises ;-) ):
            1. they should provide excellent high quality samples, or allow the next box to import samples from Roland's own ass-kicking S760 library; and/or
            2. they should make the editing parameters truly radical, rather than essentially eq curving in different ways, as all the "cosm" is currently implemented. Unlike Yamaha's physical modeling synthesis, which is true modeling, COSM is true marketing more than anything else. It's fun to play with etc., but I'm not convinced.

            Can anyone tell me whether and how this positional sensitivity on the drum heads works? I've asked this before, elsewhere around here, but no one has responded with an answer. If these drums are truly capable of positional sensing, like the old Simmons SDX was able, is there a COSM parameter for editing and adjusting the pitch and filter envelopes from center to edge of the drumheads? If not, why not? That seems like a pretty straightforward way to make more realistic the drums' responsiveness (and it worked wonderfully to that effect on the SDX). The added bonus is that it allows the drummer to program truly radical percussion sounds if that's what is desired. I'm not a fan of the lame sound effect patches etc. on the TD-10. Plus, if i wanted to take it there, on a $6,000 instrument, why shouldn't I be able to do it myself, as I wish to hear it?

            These may sound like major gripes, but they are not major issues from a design or engineering standpoint. Further, they've been done more than 10 years ago on the Simmons SDX, so there's no excuse for Roland, who's one of the leading engineering companies, not to have implemented them. In my opinion, a lot of the folks on the board here, bless their souls, seem pretty easy to please. All I'm saying is, considering the sound quality of the 5080, not to mention what $6,500 buys nowadays, I expect more from Roland than a retreaded v-session at the January NAMM.

            cheers,

            ruxxmoniker

            Comment


            • #7
              i prefer the sound of a human playing drums.i prefer the sound of a human who is off beat occasionally than a drum machine.that's just me.natural swing and whatnot.
              -i can levitate birds and no one cares-----------V-CONCERT,CY12H-CY15R/SPD-20-XP-60 V-STUDIO 1824CD,DAUZ PADS,NO RYTHYM AND MISC.CRAP 9"HART SPLASH/AKAI S5000/ASSLOAD OF SAMPLES

              Comment


              • #8
                Music to my ears

                Ruxx eloquently makes the tough analysis we have seen here before about the shortcomings of the TD-10, which are indeed many, as well as the presumed superiority of less expensive, commonly available alternatives.

                So, like a broken record, I will again pose my rather rhetorical yet eternally unrequited question:

                If it is so cheap and easy to do it with myriads of pre-existing components, why hasn't it been done already by a competitor?
                Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance

                Comment


                • #9
                  So what you are saying is that the edrum manufacturers are saying:

                  Yes, we could give them diamonds for the price of crap, and it wouldn't cost us anymore to give them diamonds, but as long as they'll settle for crap that's what we'll give them... because we can. And we [the brotherhood of e-drum manufacturers] secretly agree on this.

                  I don't think it is like that. I think if Yamaha could bump Roland off the shelf they would do so gleefully. They have the capability to take a good stab at it if they combined the voice capabilities of their keyboards with the triggering capabilities of their kits. Why don't they?

                  Why doesn't the TD? produce sounds as good as a moderately priced keyboard or sampler? Well, turn that around and ask: Why doesn't a moderately priced keyboard or sampler have a 12-port trigger-to-MIDI interface built in?

                  What I'm suggesting is that the 'great sounding sampler' and the TD? each have capabilities that the other doesn't and maybe - just maybe - combining the two into one box isn't the baby steps easy-as-pie process that many here seem to think it is.

                  If it cost me $1 to manufacture a limp of dung and sell it to you for $10, and it also cost me $1 to manufacture a steak that I could sell you for $10 - I, the manufacturer, would sell you the steak, because I would know that my competition next door would sell you the steak just so he could say 'that guy's stuff over there is just dung'.

                  You want me to believe that Roland has everything it needs to create a superior product at a marketable price and, thus, capture the headlines again along with more market share - but they won't do it because they are happy where they are?

                  I dunno. Doesn't make sense.

                  There must be something we on the outside don't see that prevents them from making a superior product - especially if, as everyone here seems to think, it wouldn't cost them anything extra to do it.

                  Just my opinion. I can be wrong.
                  My website...
                  VCustom kit,
                  TD8 + Aphex Impulse,
                  HDI Cymbals.
                  A great site: eDrumming.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Music to my ears

                    Originally posted by gingerbaker

                    If it is so cheap and easy to do it with myriads of pre-existing components, why hasn't it been done already by a competitor?
                    I am a frequent positor of the same question, but in this case it is inapposite b/c it *has* been done already - around a decade ago (that's a long time...) by one of the old, now-outta-biz competitors, Simmons. That was sorta my point. I share your frustration. Regards,

                    Ruxx Moniker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      full disclosure

                      Further to my last post, full disclosure is required, which will certainly lead to smug self-satisfied grins by all you conspiracy theorists... ;-)

                      The spoken of Simmons SDX, which really *was* all that and a bag o' chips (except for the zone pads, whose cell-membrane sensors (under the rubber surface) would wear unevenly), was pretty pricey in its day (or any day, for that matter)... I bought mine used from the guys in the cheese-metal-hair band Gorky Park (remember those Russian guys on Pirate Radio, etc.? ) -- it was an 11 piece monstrosity and cost me $5,000 used. The same kit listed new for close to $25,000. I sold it a couple of years later for all of a whopping $2,300. Quite an instrument, at quite a price.

                      Wonder what the intellectual property assets of the company sold for in Simmons' liquidation...

                      Best,

                      Ruxx Moniker

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: full disclosure

                        Originally posted by ruxx moniker
                        The spoken of Simmons SDX, which really *was* all that and a bag o' chips...
                        I guess I've been living under a rock, but the only Simmons kits I've ever hear sounded more like special-effects roto-toms than accustic drums.
                        My website...
                        VCustom kit,
                        TD8 + Aphex Impulse,
                        HDI Cymbals.
                        A great site: eDrumming.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wait; you say that putting the best sounds possible into a module will scare away the buyers? Really?

                          I can see not dropping trigger-to-midi into the keyboards - but don't drop the keyboard's sound reproduction capabilities into the modules just because you'd rather use crap?

                          And c.Jude; You say they could slap together a revolutionary product in an afternoon for next to nothing, but just don't want to?

                          I suppose the Roland execs said "Rather than use the exceptional sound reproducing capabilities we already have in our keyboards, lets spend the time, energy and resources to develop crap for the drummers."

                          It doesn't make sense. Or cents. (It makes a lot of scents, though! )
                          My website...
                          VCustom kit,
                          TD8 + Aphex Impulse,
                          HDI Cymbals.
                          A great site: eDrumming.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            you guys are veering wildly!!!!

                            dudes,
                            hate to say it, but i'm beginning to feel insulted by your interpretation of my comments about the simmons sdx. i said sdx, not sds-7. the latter, which i have never owned, is a unit that required one to burn an eprom to replace samples. the former, which i did own, and which was very sophisticated with all the same graphic user interface features of the td-10, plus a nifty trac-ball, on a 9 inch screen, no less, was a full-fledged 16 bit 44kHz sampler, not an eprom burn sampler. it even had balanced audio inputs for sampling, a scsi interface, balanced multi outs (16 of them - one for each drum), zone intelligence (3 way on ALL pads, including cymbals, which were also chokable and which swung on their stands like the real thing), etc, etc.

                            this was not the sds-7, which had been a success for the company and was featured in many van halen, duran duran, and others' records and tours in the early to mid 1980's.

                            rather, the sdx was (obviously) a hyper-ambitious product for the company; probably (well, obviously) a total over-extension of their small-company capabilities that served the uber-pro market and ultimately could not find a larger market.

                            everything we have been talking about since before i entered the thread has been done. period. read again my description of the sdx a few paragraphs above, if you must. therefore, this is no fantasy and no one would need to return to the dank days of burning eproms. i mean jeezus!!! EPROMS??!!!


                            insofar as i'm concerned, none of the foregoing involves any increased costs. this is because it's not a question of hardware. moreover, there's no issue of intensive development costs on the software side because it's been done and, one would think, would have been bought already by roland or someone like them when the simmons co. went under, and/or, 10 years+ later, this technology is not so revolutionary.

                            in my opinion, you're right when you say they don't do it b/c they don't really have to... i think it's also, sadly, a failure of the imagination by the engineers and/or beancounters, and ultimately, laziness of same.

                            let's hope they've shaken out the cobwebs and gotten the lead out of their asses so we can see some worthwhile improvements at the january namm. but don't defend these pirates by saying it's impossible -- for $6,000 plus, it should be possible, especially considering, as i'll "broken record-ly repeat", that this technology is and has been out there - for more than a decade already. roland: faster, please.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ruxx moniker, I too was surprised with what the market had to offer compared to my SDS-7, and this was just as the TD-7 came out. My disappointment continued with the V-drum system when it came out, although it was an improvement. After trying out Yamaha and ddrums I still found all modules to be inferior to Simmons, mainly do to the fact that this was new and current technology and still no equal too much older Simmons technology.

                              And now to my point, I guess we have to make do with what we are offered nowadays. There are some people who are working on something new as we speak and Roland nor Clavia nor Yamaha are one of them and won’t be. We will have to wait for the new product and it might be a while... but something is coming.
                              Studio

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X