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  • DocDogHouse, you seem to be knowing a lot :-)
    1/ ATV was founded by Roland's founder Mister Kakehashi who also co-invented MIDI. Unfortunately, Mister K passed away a few years ago. ATV and Roland respect each other.
    2/ Maybe your "whole" picture needs a bit of an update on the filtering : never before there's been an as successful and widely appreciated module released as the TD-17, which is actually based on the TD-50. Also, the brand new TD-27 has been nicknamed as the "TD-50 Light", so I guess those modules aren't so bad compared to their predecessors?
    3/ Who are the "majors" in your opinion? Alesis has been outselling brands in quantity, although they do have lots of warranty issues and resulting replacement costs.
    4/ "many are saying", "maybe they don't have the money"... you should start a gossip magazine on electronic drumming brands. To give you some background : the core of engineers who joined Mr. K at ATV when he founded it, were all Roland engineers, including some key V-Drums team members responsible for the TD-9, TD-11, TD-15 & SPD-30. Some of them I'm still very good friends with and some have left ATV to go on different paths but still have a Roland and ATV heart. I myself have been contributing intensively to the Roland Digital Percussion Development Team since 2003, so there's not any 'hear-say' in my reply here.
    5/ Some brands, like GEWA, have been announcing the release of their G9 system already since +3 years ago. Due to engineering bottlenecks, they only now released that one commercially. Has nothing to do with capitalism, but everything with product development issues. I hope they will succeed in getting their instrument on the live stages.

    Anyways, it would be fun to see you posting about your conspiracy theory around Roland Corporation and its electronic drums department on social media, so we can all enjoy the triggered entertaining comments while continuing to work on the present and future of V-Drums.

    Grtz, Michael

    SuperNATURAL drummer. Hostile relationship with latency and unnatural trigger reaction. SquarElectric "MichaelSchack.Drums" play along album
    Download --> (link) http://michaelschack.bandcamp.com

    Comment


    • Thank you, Michael. I wasn't sure how I was going to handle this rant, but you took care of it pretty well for me. Thanks!
      Alan
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | message | recommendations

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      • I used to have the SIMMONS SDS9 kit back in the 80's, I wish I still had them. I miss the great sounds they had. This would be on my WISH LIST for sure. It would bring back so many memories. There were so many good songs recorded with SIMMONS kits back in the 80's. Just check out this YouTube page and listen to his song list. It sounds just great.
        https://www.youtube.com/user/marcinnsz/videos

        Comment


        • Going back to the wish list idea, I'd like to see the next gen Roland module take a few cues from the Mimic Pro, but not straight out copy it. I like the touchscreen idea, but also think physical controls offer a more reliable interface (much like how a touch screen phone keypad can never be a replacement for a keyboard). However, having a quarter of the module space taken up with a full color touchscreen interface, with the rest being a physical EQ and selection buttons seems like a best of both worlds solution for interfacing.

          Next is samples! I'd love to see Roland team up with some other drum and cymbal manufacturers (prolly a pipe dream here) and use kit samples (much like Superior Drummer) as the basis for its kits. Multiple teamups would be better, but realistically I can prolly only see them scoring a single cymbal and a couple drum companies to use. They don't even need to be the common brands. Samples from drum companies like Monolith, Rogers, Ayotte, etc would be great for the standard module. Zildjian or Sabian would be a fantastic draw for cymbals, especially considering Rolands cymbal quality in the past (a problem a lot of other edrum guys have had), but even a company not from the big two would work (Paiste would be awesome, but I think Meinl or Istanbul might be easier to get a contract with).

          And that leads into my next dream, and something that could be very profitable for all involved: like ToonTrack, Roland could sell expansion kits for this new module. Load it up with a 250 gig SSD out of the factory and allow purchases to be made via some sort of secure format (perhaps even proprietary) to load new samples onto the module. Let's say default module has Monolith and Ayotte drum sounds and Meinl cymbals. A pack could add new Tama drums with Tama getting a cut of the profits with Roland, and a deal with Sabian could add a cymbal pack much the same way. Yea, I know this is prolly a pipe dream and near impossible considering the amount of companies that would have to work together, but how cool would it be to have the sampling interface with whatever hardware you want being based from the module instead of going to a laptop to trigger? Pair this with Rolands low latency and you got a dream machine.
          Current Kit - TD6-KV originally, added CY12R/C as a ride and upgraded rack toms to PDX-6, upgraded floor tom to PD-85, upgraded hi-hats to CY-5, upgraded brain to TD-9, upgraded bass to KD-120. Gibraltar 9608MB throne, Easton Ahead sticks.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by leathco View Post
            Going back to the wish list idea, I'd like to see the next gen Roland module take a few cues from the Mimic Pro, but not straight out copy it. I like the touchscreen idea, but also think physical controls offer a more reliable interface (much like how a touch screen phone keypad can never be a replacement for a keyboard). However, having a quarter of the module space taken up with a full color touchscreen interface, with the rest being a physical EQ and selection buttons seems like a best of both worlds solution for interfacing.

            Next is samples! I'd love to see Roland team up with some other drum and cymbal manufacturers (prolly a pipe dream here) and use kit samples (much like Superior Drummer) as the basis for its kits. Multiple teamups would be better, but realistically I can prolly only see them scoring a single cymbal and a couple drum companies to use. They don't even need to be the common brands. Samples from drum companies like Monolith, Rogers, Ayotte, etc would be great for the standard module. Zildjian or Sabian would be a fantastic draw for cymbals, especially considering Rolands cymbal quality in the past (a problem a lot of other edrum guys have had), but even a company not from the big two would work (Paiste would be awesome, but I think Meinl or Istanbul might be easier to get a contract with).

            And that leads into my next dream, and something that could be very profitable for all involved: like ToonTrack, Roland could sell expansion kits for this new module. Load it up with a 250 gig SSD out of the factory and allow purchases to be made via some sort of secure format (perhaps even proprietary) to load new samples onto the module. Let's say default module has Monolith and Ayotte drum sounds and Meinl cymbals. A pack could add new Tama drums with Tama getting a cut of the profits with Roland, and a deal with Sabian could add a cymbal pack much the same way. Yea, I know this is prolly a pipe dream and near impossible considering the amount of companies that would have to work together, but how cool would it be to have the sampling interface with whatever hardware you want being based from the module instead of going to a laptop to trigger? Pair this with Rolands low latency and you got a dream machine.
            ---
            Always interesting to read wish lists.
            But always one question comes in mind : how much are you willing to pay for such a module then? And what's the actual market potential?

            1/ touchscreens are a nightmare on stage, especially when light shows are involved. You can find not any Mimic Pro nor G9 on stage. Same goes for 2Box for instance.

            2/ "Next is samples -> I'd like to see kit samples as the basis for its kits"
            What do you think the internal sounds of a TD-50/27/17 are made of? PCM or only synth generated sounds? Roland does already team up with some manufacturers and collecting vintage drum owners.
            Also, there are always copyright and licensing issues involved when naming the sounds. You might not ever see any brand names in any module actually mentioned.
            All acoustic oriented sounds in a V-Drums module are samples from an actually miked up, specially recorded kit. You can check out the story of those recording sessions for TD-50 on YouTube.
            All processed sounds are combinations of acoustic samples and layered sounds from other sources. You can check out the story on how those sounds are made for TM-6Pro for instance on YouTube as well (featuring myself

            Currently, third parties are selling expansion packs for all current modules, even including TD-25 and TD-30 still.
            Here you can find mine : https://michaelschackmusic.com/shop.html

            3/ did you already check out Roland Cloud? It's there already and there's drum sounds on there too.

            Cheers.
            SuperNATURAL drummer. Hostile relationship with latency and unnatural trigger reaction. SquarElectric "MichaelSchack.Drums" play along album
            Download --> (link) http://michaelschack.bandcamp.com

            Comment


            • Originally posted by michaelschack View Post

              ---
              Always interesting to read wish lists.
              But always one question comes in mind : how much are you willing to pay for such a module then? And what's the actual market potential?

              1/ touchscreens are a nightmare on stage, especially when light shows are involved. You can find not any Mimic Pro nor G9 on stage. Same goes for 2Box for instance.

              2/ "Next is samples -> I'd like to see kit samples as the basis for its kits"
              What do you think the internal sounds of a TD-50/27/17 are made of? PCM or only synth generated sounds? Roland does already team up with some manufacturers and collecting vintage drum owners.
              Also, there are always copyright and licensing issues involved when naming the sounds. You might not ever see any brand names in any module actually mentioned.
              All acoustic oriented sounds in a V-Drums module are samples from an actually miked up, specially recorded kit. You can check out the story of those recording sessions for TD-50 on YouTube.
              All processed sounds are combinations of acoustic samples and layered sounds from other sources. You can check out the story on how those sounds are made for TM-6Pro for instance on YouTube as well (featuring myself

              Currently, third parties are selling expansion packs for all current modules, even including TD-25 and TD-30 still.
              Here you can find mine : https://michaelschackmusic.com/shop.html

              3/ did you already check out Roland Cloud? It's there already and there's drum sounds on there too.

              Cheers.
              Could just be me being old and misinformed than. My current module is a TD-9 if that tells you anything.
              Current Kit - TD6-KV originally, added CY12R/C as a ride and upgraded rack toms to PDX-6, upgraded floor tom to PD-85, upgraded hi-hats to CY-5, upgraded brain to TD-9, upgraded bass to KD-120. Gibraltar 9608MB throne, Easton Ahead sticks.

              Comment


              • i just want a module you can load new sounds into, whether it's in the way leathco proposes or if it's loading your own samples from VSTs you purchase separately via SDSE (like with the STRIKE or 2box modules).

                really the only reason i chose to upgrade from my roland TD-6v module is because of the quality (or lack thereof) of the onboard sounds, though without the ability to load new sounds later anything will end up sounding dated eventually. vastly preferred the menu navigation and settings of the td-17 but didn't care for the sounds that much.
                Alesis STRIKE, PD-85 rack toms, PD-105BK floor tom, Mapex snare with ISM-6, PDP MX 22" kick with ISM, iron cobra 900 double pedal, hart e-cymbal2, CY-5 as splash, CY-8, CY-12R, L80 hi-hat with cheap-o trigger with goedrum hi hat controller. EZdrummer2+EZX/Addictive Drums 2 VSTs.

                Comment


                • Another thing I would like to have on my wish list is to store all my amazing drum kits onto one card (over 400 kits in total) and then be able to load them all onto the Roland TD-50 module ready for use instead of being limited to 100 kits at a time. I currently filled my TD-50 module with my top 100 amazing kits, mainly VEX kits and I use every single one of these kits. I have over 1200 studio recorded drumless MP3 files that I play along with. Most of my kits are from Allan & Chris (VEX Kits) I have tried others but VEX are the best kits out there by far. V-Expressions kits are just amazing kits.

                  Thanks Allan & Chris keep up the great work. Looking forward to seeing what kits you come up with next!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by michaelschack View Post

                    ---
                    Always interesting to read wish lists.
                    But always one question comes in mind : how much are you willing to pay for such a module then? And what's the actual market potential?

                    1/ touchscreens are a nightmare on stage, especially when light shows are involved. You can find not any Mimic Pro nor G9 on stage. Same goes for 2Box for instance.

                    2/ "Next is samples -> I'd like to see kit samples as the basis for its kits"
                    What do you think the internal sounds of a TD-50/27/17 are made of? PCM or only synth generated sounds? Roland does already team up with some manufacturers and collecting vintage drum owners.
                    Also, there are always copyright and licensing issues involved when naming the sounds. You might not ever see any brand names in any module actually mentioned.
                    All acoustic oriented sounds in a V-Drums module are samples from an actually miked up, specially recorded kit. You can check out the story of those recording sessions for TD-50 on YouTube.
                    All processed sounds are combinations of acoustic samples and layered sounds from other sources. You can check out the story on how those sounds are made for TM-6Pro for instance on YouTube as well (featuring myself

                    Currently, third parties are selling expansion packs for all current modules, even including TD-25 and TD-30 still.
                    Here you can find mine : https://michaelschackmusic.com/shop.html

                    3/ did you already check out Roland Cloud? It's there already and there's drum sounds on there too.

                    Cheers.
                    Mike, thanks for chiming in. Firstly, I appreciate what you have done to further electronic drumming through the years and your commitment to it.

                    I'm sure when you hear many of us ask for "real" samples, it's clear that we mean un-processed long waveform samples, as opposed to processed segments of sampled drums modulated by various algorithms - (COSM, SuperNatural, Prismatic, or whatever else it will be called.) I am sure Roland is well aware that many many knowledgeable, discriminating buyers prefer the rich full-bodied sounds of VSTs. With that said, why doesn't Roland offer two different module approaches - the current VDrums approach AND alongside that another flagship module that suits those who insist on a VST-like approach? It shouldn't be ignored that many of us simply aren't willing to lay down $2,000+ for VDrums sounds and will do anything to work around it, including lugging laptops to gigs. I have done that many times myself, but I have also owned over the years a TD-7, TD-4, TD-9, TD-20, TD-30, but not yet the current-generation TD-17, TD-27 or TD50. (I may try out the TD-27 to experience the digital snare and ride.) I remain a huge Roland fan, and you can keep my loyalty by adding a "real" sampled approach to your line. That said, part of me does have faith that the VDrums approach can get closer and closer to, say, a Mimic Pro's sounds or SD3 with more development. It's just too far away for my liking at the moment.

                    Respectfully,

                    JP
                    Last edited by jpsquared482; 08-26-20, 03:45 PM.
                    ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

                    Comment


                    • I'd like to see them go all digital kit pieces, offering positional sensing on all their pieces.
                      Perhaps a more touch friendly interface with a larger screen. If people like dials, they can still have a 'control wheel' or two to keep it faithful to their roots or whatever.
                      In this day and age where even mobile phones have as much memory and storage as old computers used to, there is no excuse to be limited to 100 kits whatsoever. I'm sure they can look at some technological enhancements here that allow a much much larger bank of sounds.

                      While the sound quality has improved considerably on the TD-27 and 50 compared to my faithful old TD-12, I still think they don't quite sound as realistic as they can be. When I listen to them side by side with a Pearl MP or AD or Superior Drummer, then it is clear which sounds better. What is hard to say is whether this represents the raw unprocessed samples, or the processing that goes along with the VST packages you can buy. That being said, even with 'as raw as possible' samples in SD 3.0, I felt the samples sounded better than anything Roland had to offer. What Roland do have though is variety and a few interesting things like DNB or African drums or Tabla and other percussion instruments whereas you have to purchase these separately with VSTs, and sometimes all the offerings are not there or end up being very expensive. There are pro's and con's to both approaches. Roland is definitely moving in the right direction, but its happening painfully slowly.

                      Comment


                      • i see this post is similar to what i mean ^
                        i have something for the wishlist : i tried editing a roland td-27 couple of times.. and going through the menu's is a crime..
                        it really is 'impossible' to edit all the possibilities in a 'normal' way.. i think what would be real handy is a software editor,
                        with a usb link.. so, you can edit the sounds on a laptop.. and hit the drums and hear the direct result of edits..
                        Last edited by Ericdrumz; 09-13-20, 04:02 AM.
                        Audio | Video | Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

                        Comment


                        • It seems that Roland has upped their game regarding sampling in their Fantom keyboard. Why this new technology can’t or should I say “won’t” be incorporated into a new drum module, remains to be seen.

                          here’s a brief look at what’s up Roland’s sleeve;

                          ‘The FANTOM sampling engine gets a significant overhaul in Version 2.0. Users now have the ability to sample directly to the keyboard or build detailed multisamples, which can be edited on board and used as the basis of any oscillator/partial in a ZEN-Core tone. With up to 352 samples per tone and 16 tones in a Scene, the sound design potential is vast.’

                          Comment


                          • Unfortunately, the past has shown us it takes many years for them to bring their keyboard features to the TD line.
                            Alan
                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | message | recommendations

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by wavedrummer View Post
                              It seems that Roland has upped their game regarding sampling in their Fantom keyboard. Why this new technology can’t or should I say “won’t” be incorporated into a new drum module, remains to be seen.

                              here’s a brief look at what’s up Roland’s sleeve;

                              ‘The FANTOM sampling engine gets a significant overhaul in Version 2.0. Users now have the ability to sample directly to the keyboard or build detailed multisamples, which can be edited on board and used as the basis of any oscillator/partial in a ZEN-Core tone. With up to 352 samples per tone and 16 tones in a Scene, the sound design potential is vast.’
                              If people stop protecting and admitting Roland need new sound engine everywhere, start to boycott them, maybe they will change, but fan fan telling that Roland sound like any module out here, no need vst, vdrum sound better then vst, all is perfect etc.. this is the real problem, too many don't understand what is real drum sound and quality, big thanks to Roland, we love your sound etc..
                              Last edited by Chris K; 10-13-20, 04:45 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Chris K View Post

                                If people stop protecting and admitting Roland need new sound engine everywhere, start to boycott them, maybe they will change, but fan fan telling that Roland sound like any module out here, no need vst, vdrum sound better then vst, all is perfect etc.. this is the real problem, too many don't understand what is real drum sound and quality, big thanks to Roland, we love your sound etc..
                                I still prefer to play the snare of my TD-30 than those from SD. Am I authorized to tell it ?

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