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  • Machine Gunning: Fact or Fiction?

    Seems the whole "machine gunning" thing has gotten out of hand on other threads. How prevalent is this with everyone? I've never really noticed it on either my TD6 or my TDW20.

    I remember being at a wedding reception with a live band with an A kit. When the drummer did a long snare roll, it sounded like machine gunning. Since this was an A kit you can definitely attribute it to his playing style (Machine Gunning; Style Points, is a whole 'nother thread) and NOT the snare drum.

    Has there been any lengthy dicussion over the fact that a lot of folks, or at least some number greater than a few, reviewing the whole "machine gunning" effect are;
    1. novices at best
    2. have not developed enough play style to not machine gun even on an A kit snare
    3. how discernable is it to general audiences at the dives most of us on the Forums are playing to at one time or another
    4. which module/brand is most notorious for this
    5. what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

    I only mention this because I feel, in my opinion, which is totally based on alcohol induced memory lapses, fanboy rage, tone deaf audio skills, and the general firing of semi automatic and automatic rifles, that *some* of this mysterious *machine gunning* is in part on the bad playing skill of the *drummer*. What I mean is, when I do a snare roll, there are lots of subtle nuances in speed/intensity of each strike in rapid succession with just enough variance to NOT sound like machine gunning. Because Roland acknowledges to some degree that machine gunning can be done on one or more of their modules, one of the selling points of superNatural on the TD30 was that the module puts these subtle nuances into each strike for you, thus, supposedly eliminating machine gunning. At least this is how it was explained to me at NAMM when they introduced the thing.

    What do you guys think? Are we dealing with a fair amount of stiff, crappy snare rollers or is everyone doomed to machine gunning no matter what they do or how they play?

    K ;-)
    My bands: Alter Ego, Arcanum
    E Kit = Roland TDW-20s kit // Roland SPD-S// Pearl Demon Drives//
    A Kit = Tama Swingstar 5 pc (1981) w/roto toms (orig owner!) //Zildjians
    A Kit = Natal 6 pc with Paiste 2000 & Zildjian/MidiKNights/DrumSplitters

  • #2
    Its all in the eye of the beholder .. I mean, the ear of the beholder... I don't care about it like 99.99999999999999999999999% of regular non-musician folks ... its why I always say that its a myth and that only drummers can ear it... end of discussion...

    /close thread

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TriggerThis View Post
      Its all in the eye of the beholder .. I mean, the ear of the beholder... I don't care about it like 99.99999999999999999999999% of regular non-musician folks ... its why I always say that its a myth and that only drummers can ear it... end of discussion...

      /close thread

      Whoah! CLOSE thread?!! Who made you Pope of this dump?! LOL!

      K ;-)
      My bands: Alter Ego, Arcanum
      E Kit = Roland TDW-20s kit // Roland SPD-S// Pearl Demon Drives//
      A Kit = Tama Swingstar 5 pc (1981) w/roto toms (orig owner!) //Zildjians
      A Kit = Natal 6 pc with Paiste 2000 & Zildjian/MidiKNights/DrumSplitters

      Comment


      • #4
        P.S. BTW, since you won that great Paiste / Natal Drum Kit giveaway, you lost your sensitive subject thread starting privileges on this forum!
        Last edited by TriggerThis; 09-27-13, 02:36 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Kenster,

          At first, I thought this thread is largely humorous, but it seems you do want actual feedback. As I discover more of what makes electronic drums sound authentic versus synthetic and false, I find machine gunning is near the top of the list. The lack of enough voices of polyphony and/or the repeating of voices that sound the same in volume and nuance is a significant factor in how the drum sound in perceived by musicians and audiences alike. Currently, eliminating machine gunning is probably the biggest area edrum manufacturers need to work on. Ironically, it's a pretty simple thing to fix, but doing so requires more hardware (memory, processing speed, dynamic layers and random voice/sample selection, etc.) and this drives up cost, which is likely the reason machine gunning remains.

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't do snare rolls in the music I play so I've never even heard of machine gunning.

            When I am fooling around, rolling or rudimenting, I have never heard anything that sounded like a machine gun.

            Comment


            • #7
              If you've got more than 40 velocity-layers for a single kit-piece (snare, etc.), machine-gunning is near impossible.

              Even if you concentrate hard, you are not likely to trigger, say, velocity 89 on a constant level.
              .
              .
              Greetings from Switzerland,
              - Dänoh


              "My best friends' name is . They used to call him '' He has an ''..!"

              http://www.vdrums.com/forum/core/cus...ar33631_4.jpeg

              Comment


              • #8
                Machine gunning is a very real thing. I've always known about it since way back when I hated e drums. It's very simple. IMO, the drummer has nothing to do with it. The cheaper machines have ONE single snare sound. No matter how hard you hit, the module will play this same sound. The only thing that changes is the velocity (volume of sound) when you hit the pad with different strengths. So yes, I used to hear it all the time, even from very good drummers and I hated it. That all changed with the td30. BUT I was still a little disappointed with the toms because they still machine gun, albeit, better than before.

                The VSTs and 2box etc... Have quite a few different sound samples at different velocities. So the module internally knows that when it detects a hit at X velocity, it will trigger that sound. So the human behind the drummer won't be able to consistently hit the same way EVERY SINGLE STRIKE. And I believe, even if they did, the 2box and VST program will randomize the sound triggered so you will never get back to back same sounds. It's a real thing. I'm surprised with your TD20, you don't hear it because that module is notorious for doing that.

                Having said that, if you are a good settings tweaker, you may get away with possibly making it less prevelant if that makes sense thru the modules settings?

                Take a listen to some YouTube vids of like Roland vdrum contests. Even with the TD30, during real fast drum solos around the toms and double bass kick drums, you will hear TONS of machine gunning. The same tom sound over and over again, while the snare sounds great.



                www.youtube.com/gregthegroove

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kenster View Post
                  Whoah! CLOSE thread?!! Who made you Pope of this dump?! LOL!

                  K ;-)
                  He won the last post, it says so right there ya know. :-)
                  Mini-kit: TD-9 + Alesis Control Pad + Alesis Sample Pad + PDX-6 snare
                  Micro-kit: Handsonic HPD-20 + an old pair of hands.
                  Speakers: QSC-K10 "thumper", DBR-10 "little thumper"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Machine gunning?...FACT over the whole spectrum! If you care to test out the theory.....break into my house...and taste the rainbow.
                    8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                    http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
                      Machine gunning?...FACT over the whole spectrum! If you care to test out the theory.....break into my house...and taste the rainbow.
                      Now wait a minute...if we're Forum friends wouldn't you INVITE us into your home to try your monster kit? If I broke in, I'd probably be met like a burglary at 3Cup's house....the angry resident armed with a cymbal arm, ready to hand out beat downs.

                      K ;-)
                      My bands: Alter Ego, Arcanum
                      E Kit = Roland TDW-20s kit // Roland SPD-S// Pearl Demon Drives//
                      A Kit = Tama Swingstar 5 pc (1981) w/roto toms (orig owner!) //Zildjians
                      A Kit = Natal 6 pc with Paiste 2000 & Zildjian/MidiKNights/DrumSplitters

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ...That was the first time, someone invited me to *break into* his house!

                        I'm afraid, he wants to test a gun or two... ;-)
                        .
                        .
                        Greetings from Switzerland,
                        - Dänoh


                        "My best friends' name is . They used to call him '' He has an ''..!"

                        http://www.vdrums.com/forum/core/cus...ar33631_4.jpeg

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hairmetal-81 View Post
                          ...That was the first time, someone invited me to *break into* his house!

                          I'm afraid, he wants to test a gun or two... ;-)
                          hehehehe.....I have an itchy "trigger" finger...
                          8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                          http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
                            hehehehe.....I have an itchy "trigger" finger...

                            Lol! Hey, I forgot to ask: What does a rainbow taste like?
                            Fanta, soda stream?
                            .
                            .
                            Greetings from Switzerland,
                            - Dänoh


                            "My best friends' name is . They used to call him '' He has an ''..!"

                            http://www.vdrums.com/forum/core/cus...ar33631_4.jpeg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hairmetal-81 View Post
                              Lol! Hey, I forgot to ask: What does a rainbow taste like?
                              Fanta, soda stream?
                              It was just a tongue in cheek reference back to the "full spectrum" part of my comment.

                              ...but yes... IMHO....my gear(not wanting to drop a brand reference so as not to embark on another "this is better than that rabbit trail") ....hits the sweet spot for the "best of"...for the "best price"...as IMHO Soda Stream does.
                              8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                              http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

                              Comment

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