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Sadness at Mackie

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  • Sadness at Mackie

    In the continuing depressing saga of trying to get my SRS-1500 subwoofer fixed under warranty - waiting since September? - some facts discovered which may be of interest to the folks here.

    EAW, the parts warehousing and service arm of Mackie has been out of replacement woofer cones for months. They are now out of the amps used in the SRS-1500 subwoofer, which is now discontinued and replaced by an upgraded model, which seems to use a redesigned amp design.

    Evidently, Behringer has been taking a lot of marketshare from Mackie, and they have just layed off a masive number of employees, and are switching their site of assembly to China.

    Goodbye American jobs, and most likely the reputation and high quality of a venerated brand.

    Perhaps the true cost of Behringer products should include this result in the calculation.
    Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance

  • #2
    Pirates!

    When I replied to thread (http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthre...genumber=1-see post Caveat Emptor) about Behringer products I assumed they were at least licensing their designs.

    From what Chris Jude is saying it appears Behringer is just plain stealing copyrighted designs, doing the "Mad Man Muntz" method of cost reduction on them, and cranking them out by the ton through contracted Mfgrs in Taiwan.

    This sucks much more than 50%. I have friends who did some of the early design work on Mackie consoles, and they are some of the best in the industry. Mackie put a lot of effort and capital into creating a reliable high performance product line at a reasonable cost. Aarrgh!

    I've never owned anything Behringer, and I'm now certain I never will.

    PO'ed former employee of another innovative American electronic musical instrument mfg driven out of the business by foreign competitors cheap tactics. (and our own idiotic marketing dept.)

    Later,
    E2P

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    • #3
      Whatever!

      For years Mackie has jacked prices on "pro-quality" audio gear that was a little better than what someone else could make for 1/2 the price. The mistake Mackie made was not, getting Behringer to pay off the suits from patents, but rather not developing a cost effective line. While I would love to own a few Mackie 12's or 15's with some subs, Yamaha, Behringer, JBL and about 50 other companies make products that will work just fine - for way less money.

      Before you start blaming Behringer for Mackie's demise, look at what Mackie did to themselves. I mean if Behringer could make the same mixer for 1/2 the price, why couldn't Mackie do it too? And if they did, which one would you buy?
      Mapex Acoustic Birch 6pc Kit - Sabian Cymbals - PC Recorder/MIDI: Sonar 2.2 - M Audio Audiophile 24/96 / Avance AC97 - Samson 65A Monitors - Building a V-drum revolution kit: 3 - 10" Toms, 14" Snare, 2 - 16" Crashes, 12" Hats, 10" Mesh Kick - MODULE TO BE DETERMINED...

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      • #4
        aaaahhhhhh reverse engineering.i live in silicon valley.we live and breath corporate theft out here.it's a shame really.
        -i can levitate birds and no one cares-----------V-CONCERT,CY12H-CY15R/SPD-20-XP-60 V-STUDIO 1824CD,DAUZ PADS,NO RYTHYM AND MISC.CRAP 9"HART SPLASH/AKAI S5000/ASSLOAD OF SAMPLES

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        • #5
          LOL

          Isn't that the truth...

          But here are some quick examples of what I mean...

          Mackie SM450 Powered Speaker - $699-749
          JBL EON 15" Powered Speaker - $399
          Behringer B300 Powered Speaker - $349


          Mackie S500 Passive Speaker - $499-549
          JBL EON 15" Passive Speaker - $349
          Berhinger 15" Passive Speaker - $179
          Yamaha SM15IV Passive Speaker - $319
          Rogue RS1512H Passive Speaker - $129
          Nady PTS515 Passive Speaker - $119
          Kustom KSC15 Passive Speaker - $139

          This is just speaker Cabs... Now imagine adding the Mixer prices to this. For a Mackie setup you are talking $1500 minimum. For a Behringer setup you are talking $800 minimum. So basically, until Mackie gives the gear away, I will buy what my pocket book can afford.
          Mapex Acoustic Birch 6pc Kit - Sabian Cymbals - PC Recorder/MIDI: Sonar 2.2 - M Audio Audiophile 24/96 / Avance AC97 - Samson 65A Monitors - Building a V-drum revolution kit: 3 - 10" Toms, 14" Snare, 2 - 16" Crashes, 12" Hats, 10" Mesh Kick - MODULE TO BE DETERMINED...

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          • #6
            Studio

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            • #7
              Stealing Intellectual Property

              In answer to szvook's question "does the mfgr's origin make a difference" when making purchasing decisions?

              It does for me. If a manufacturer develops a product with patentable technology through R & D there is a cost associated with that. And when a second company copies the design they don't have that cost, so they can sell you the product for less.

              Once you know that a company is unethical it becomes a moral choice for you. If the bottom line is your only concern, well, have at it. Me, it goes against the grain.

              Personally I've always preferred to buy used high quality gear over cheap knock-offs.

              JMHO,
              E2P

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              • #8
                Thats too bad for mackie and others, but really behringer are one of the only low cost solutions out there aside from 2nd hand. Nady sells stuff at about B's price range?

                Strange really, you switch this argument to mac vs. pc pricing/reverse engineering and suddenly everyone doesn't feel so passionate about paying r&d costs. I at least support apple.

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                • #9
                  MAC vs PC - different argument.

                  Originally posted by Lightyear
                  Thats too bad for mackie and others, but really behringer are one of the only low cost solutions out there aside from 2nd hand. Nady sells stuff at about B's price range?

                  Strange really, you switch this argument to mac vs. pc pricing/reverse engineering and suddenly everyone doesn't feel so passionate about paying r&d costs. I at least support apple.
                  It's not the same argument.

                  True, Apple has been an innovative force in the growth of personal computing, but their intellectual property rights were not violated. You can't patent a concept, only the method of implementation. And as much as many people hate Bill Gates for Windows, MS didn't use the same methods of implementation for their GUI, so no harm, no foul.

                  Apple shot themselves in the foot very early on by not licensing 3rd party vendors to develop SW that would run on the Apple OS. And it put them behind the 8 ball from that point on. Also, they opted to focus on specific markets for their SW products, professional graphics and word processing primarily, with little appeal to the average consumer looking for a do-it-all home unit.

                  Major SW OS developers like MS and Sun plow huge dollars into R & D to stay ahead of the competition. But they typically don't violate IP rights, because: 1. There are too many watchdogs in the SW arena. and 2. With the money they have it's easier to license technology they can't find a way to develop an alternative to. (Granted some of the ways a competitor can be "compelled" to license are pretty unsavory - but that's a different argument too)

                  Later,
                  E2P

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                  • #10
                    well, I meant in terms of pricing. Both mackie and apple have priced themselves out of certain markets. But many dont equate r&d costs into a buying price.

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                    • #11




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