How to develop an ear for the mistakes?

[Forflex]

I've been recording some of the live drumming work that I have been doing. I find that I have a pretty cynical ear for hearing my mistakes. I'm counting this as a plus because I believe being critical of my own work makes me better.

One of the things that I have noticed is that my fills are, at times, poorly timed. Ie. my 5 stroke rolls, double paradiddles, stickings could be better cleaner.

But I've noticed that what I hear in the tape is not what I hear when actually playing it. I didn't realize that I was off during the session. Appearly, my solid ear doesn't extend to the live situation. Why do I struggle to know it doesn't sound perfect when I'm actually playing.

Folks, have you ever come across any exercises or advice for helping my develop my ear during playing?

I know that training ones ear is difficult.. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Forflex.

[Hercules]

Hi Forflex, that's where the famous old saying "the tape doesn't lie" comes from.....it's a very common phenomenon.

I think the only answer is practice with a metro(g)nome and concentrating harder when you are playing - in the end this leads to being more relaxed and it slowly comes together.

[stickinthemud]

Secondng what Hercules is saying. I would add this - identify your less than perfect groves and fills (you have done that to a large extent already, actually), and practice them without the distraction of the other instruments. Record them as patterns, using the quantize feature so they are perfect, and play along with them. When you hear a bit of a flanging effect when you strike a pad while playing along with a pattern, you are very close to dead on. This is especially noticeable with the snare.

You get to accurate drumming the same way you get to Carnegie Hall - practice, practice, practice!

[NateVentura]

[Michael Render]

Man, I always hate hearing tape of anything I do. All I hear is the flaws.
The guys here are giving you good advice, metronome and practice, practice, practice.

[Fullback32]

Man, I always hate hearing tape of anything I do. All I hear is the flaws.
The guys here are giving you good advice, metronome and practice, practice, practice.

I hear ya Mike. Tape kind of ruined me as a band member. I remember way back when I first started playing in bands and thinking how great we sounded. Then we started taping. I listened to so much tape that when we played live I was hardly ever satisfied with a performance anymore. "YOU MISSED THAT B FLAT THERE! HOW THE HECK COULD YOU DO THAT....grrrrr...grrrrr."

[Odisey]

Inner ear

Hello,

Have no fear the Doctor is here! If you want to have a good laugh at some serious off time with rolls, etc.... check out the VIDEO on my footer.

There are a number of reasons that what is happening with you is happening. I could not make a strong suggestion without actually seeing you paly and talking to you at intervals - to inquire. However, I can offer some sugestions.

There is a theory that all the information we store in long term memory (LTM) is stored there through our auditory encoding system. It is called our phonological loop. An example is when someone tells you a phone number - and then keeps talking about their day. You may find yourself repeating the phone number back to yourself - rehurshing it - listeining to it - so you don't forget. You are not drawing mental images of it in your mind's eye, you are listening to it!

We may retrieve auditory memory using this system(s) also. So, when you are playing you are hearing what 'you remember' or what you think you want to play, while your psycho-motor actions and actual fills are not necessariliy duplicating what you think is happening. Weird? It may be like a visual perception problem - or optical illusion - except it is with your auditory system.

How to fix it. I imagine when you record you sit and play the entire piece! There are several approaches. One is to reduce the parts. First track and take, play only snare, ride, kick(s). Second take, play only fills. You can adjust this to meet your needs. Recording digitally is best, it is more difficult with mics in analogue b/c of noise isolation. Once you get a psychological grasp on the auditory illusion, you should be able to overcome it. Reducing your parts will free up space in your STM cognitive systems ( 7 +/- chunks of information). You should be able to more closely focus on 'what' you are actually playing in contrast to what you 'want' to play.

You ever see someone wearing an iPod singing - and they suck? They hear beautiful music!

Odisey


Optical one
Optical two - another lighter example

[Forflex]

To all those who have replied.... Some good stuff here. Thank you. Keep them coming.

I have a specific question for Odisey so that I can understand some of the concepts he is explaining.

Odisey wrote:

>>>>>
How to fix it. I imagine when you record you sit and play the entire piece! There are several approaches. One is to reduce the parts. First track and take, play only snare, ride, kick(s). Second take, play only fills. You can adjust this to meet your needs. Recording digitally is best, it is more difficult with mics in analogue b/c of noise isolation. Once you get a psychological grasp on the auditory illusion, you should be able to overcome it. Reducing your parts will free up space in your STM cognitive systems ( 7 +/- chunks of information). You should be able to more closely focus on 'what' you are actually playing in contrast to what you 'want' to play.
<<<<<

So could this help in practicing for a live situtation. On my own... if I go through the various parts seperately, will I be able to program my "auditory encoding system" so that I can then play the piece as a whole better?

Forflex.

[John.b]

I know that training ones ear is difficult.. Any suggestions would be helpful.
Forflex.

The way I see it, timing only improves as you become more fluent.

When you can play fills as you feel them without having to think about what you are doing. Thats when it all comes together.

[Odisey]

When you can play fills as you feel them without having to think about what you are doing. Thats when it all comes together.

I agree! You make a good point there. Nonetheless we do 'think'. Cannot escape that. Cogito ergo sum - Descartes "I think therefore I am." I think fluid thought - or refinement of conscious and psycho-motor thoughts in rhythm is what 'coming together' means for me. At this point it is almost as though I am 'not' thinking. In truth though - it is a state of 'I am not thinking unnecessary thoughts or thoughts that get in the way of my peak performances.'

Odisey

[Odisey]

So could this help in practicing for a live situtation. On my own... if I go through the various parts seperately, will I be able to program my "auditory encoding system" so that I can then play the piece as a whole better?

That IS the target in the exercise. When you record your playing you have an opportunity to reflect on your playing and critique it. Reflecting is a hugh part of learning. Remember having a class and after the lecture you walked home reflecting on every part of it - and 'that' lecture is the one that really stuck in your head? Or a similar situation? So goes with the process of recording and refining your playing. Once you discover your faults, you can zero in on them and overcome them. You have to hear them first though. I suggest reducing the parts. It is a process of elimination. Lay the snare and kick tracks and listen to it. Do you find problems? Listen to the tracks and then add a few fills. Are they on time? Do they lag? Push the time? What is the problem? Try again until you get what is wrong 'right'. Then try constructing the entire composition - playing the entire piece. You may just play the vocal parts accurately and discover you still have a problem with chorus. How ever it unfolds...., reduce the parts...., get the rudimental components mastered, then reconstruct them.

Odisey

[cschriks]

Becoming a solid and tight drummer is not only about the ear but more about the muscle!! It is consistency in movements and total relaxation of your body that determine how consistent you sound. The hit is just the result, focus on the movements before the hit! It is muscle memory that you want to achieve, like in sports. Repetition and relaxation are the keywords here.

[Herl]

Becoming a solid and tight drummer is not only about the ear but more about the muscle!! It is consistency in movements and total relaxation of your body that determine how consistent you sound. The hit is just the result, focus on the movements before the hit! It is muscle memory that you want to achieve, like in sports. Repetition and relaxation are the keywords here.

I can certainly relate to this statement. One of the first things I noticed as a newbie was that some things felt cool to play and others didn't. I further discovered that some things SOUNDED cool and others did not. However, the most astonishing discovery I made was that there is no correlation between how grooves/fills feel and how they sound.

I guess this is a little bit what has already been mentioned about "what we think we play" and what we "do play".

I have been playing for many years and still suffer a little from that "thinking"... What I do to overcome it is to write it down on paper and practice it with a metronome all the way from 60 bmp to 160 bmp --- I find that it helps me take the "feel" away by practicing it from WAY too slow to WAY too fast. A side benefit is that I normally find some tempo in between the extremes that kinda screams at me "I am the right tempo for this"!!!!

Just my two cents

[MisterMR]

This is a really interesting topic.

I think it's not just about 'hearing' your mistakes... it's about 'feeling' them too.

I've found a really useful way to develop your 'real time' ear/feel for mistakes is to video-record yourself and scrutinise the video after. It doesn't have to be a full camera crew... just set up your mobile phone to do it (obviously, if it has the facility to).

It's very natural to play live... making the mistakes all the way... but not be able to acknowledge those mistakes while you play because they're gone the next second and your current focus is on playing the 'now' events as best you can.

But when you video yourself, not only will you hear the errors... but you will 'see' them too. And I think being able to 'see' how you play is really helpful because being 'relaxed' and having a good general fluid movement around the drum kit really does contribute to your overall sound, timing and consistancy.

Eventually, you will be able to 'feel', not just 'hear'. And that in itself will give you more 'senses' to be aware of your playing.

_________________________________

This is one of my videos on YouTube...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7gWe62SrI

[Herl]

...But when you video yourself, not only will you hear the errors... but you will 'see' them too. And I think being able to 'see' how you play is really helpful because being 'relaxed' and having a good general fluid movement around the drum kit really does contribute to your overall sound, timing and consistancy...

YES! I have been known to make a lot of YouTube videos and it has gradually developed into a hobby-kinda thing. I am even beginning to examine video production and other things as well. However, when I started publishing videos on YouTube, I had no plans of becoming a YouTube star or anything like that. The only reason was that I wanted a way to see my own drumming and hopefully discover problems with technique that I was unaware of. This I could have done by simply filming it and then watch it at home and all alone. I chose to publish the videos to get some response from other people. First and foremost my band, friends, and other musicians I know. Ove time, things developed, but putting something out there for others to see may work as a motivating factor. I mean, we all want to play better in the next video.

I completely agree with the video-method of discovering mistakes. So -- to stick to the OP's subject -- You can develop an eye for mistakes as well as your ear and feel. Making the videos public "forces" you to force yourself to practice and improve.