Why I'm opposed to tipping! <- diatribe

[havyck]

I just came back from Vegas for the Star Trek convention. Despite the convenience of the monorail, which I love, I still had to take a few cabs to get to all the strip clubs! Don't get me wrong, I'm have nothing against cabbies, but I hate the attitude that they are ENTITLED to a sizable tip. They are NOT. Look, your employer is a cheap SCROOGE, take it up with him/her to pay you more. It's not my obligation to make up the difference with money out of my pocket. Maybe you can't get another job but hey life sux. You are at least EMPLOYED. Why should your employer who is most likely rich, get to be so cheap but I don't? The same goes for waitresses. I know it's a crap job and you are just trying to work your way through college, but your employer could pay you more. They don't and that's THEIR issue, not mine.
Why don't patrons get a tip? After all, if it weren't for patrons, there would be no business. So I provide a TREMENDOUS and necessary service. I should get a tip.
These service sector people just use guilt to shift the obligation to fund their livelihood from the employer to the patron and I say shift it back. Hey, stop taking waitress jobs unless wages go up. That would work. No waitress, no restaurant, no business. I like that better.

Now, if you go somewhere all the time and want to build a relationship with the business that's one thing. If they will never see you again. SCREW EM!
Oh and if you spit in my food, it's a crime and not only will you go to jail but I'll sue you personally as well as the owner. I'll take the money and spend it all on hookers and wipe my ass with it.

[stickinthemud]

Havyck,

You must enjoy upsetting applecarts and disturbing wasps nests!

To some extent your arguments (while unnecessarily vulgar) have some merit. There are people in the service sector who act as if a tip is an entitlement rather than what they were originally intended to be - a way of saying "thank you" to someone who has gone beyond the mere performance of thier job to try to make your experience, whether it be travel, a meal, what-have-you, more enjoyable or profitable.

If a waitress knew that all she was going to get at the end of the day was her hourly wage, what would her motivation be to go "beyond the call of duty"? Logically, she would take the order without a smile, not bother venturing an opinion as to what was "good" today, not worry too much about whether your water glass or iced tea was kept full, or any other of the dozens of things wait-staff do to earn a gratuity. Wouldn't be nearly as much fun eating out, would it?

Applying the same logic to cab drivers - they can be a great source of information. Good restaurants, hotels, even where to find the best hookers (since that seems to be an area of interest to you). If they knew no tip would be forthcoming, they would just say "Gee, I have no idea, buddy".

The hourly wage (or price per mile) is the "show up and do your job" pay. The tip is what someone who earns it by taking extra effort to serve the client gets in return for their extra effort.

Now, if your cabbie is rude and doesn't help with your luggage, stiff him. Same with a waiter or waitress who dumps your food on the table and disappears for the rest of your meal. I have refused to tip in such instances.

If everyone took your attitude, then cab rides and your meal at a restaurant (or pizza delivery for that matter) would cost more than than they do, and your cabbie or waitperson would likely not be nearly as pleasant or helpful. It's simple human nature. Take away the incentive of the tip and all you are left with is the simple discharging of a duty, and no employer can enforce a demand for more cheerful or helpful service - it's simply not quantifiable.

I think it's very sad that your attitude is "screw em" unless you are trying to build a "relationship" with someone you deal with often. Is someone less deserving of a few extra bucks for being more attentive or helpful than they have to be simply because you don't think you'll see them again? The next time you are the recipient of the kindness of a stranger, remember when you stiffed the waitress who busted her ass to make your meal more enjoyble.

One last thought. Givers leave the world a better place than they found it. Takers fool themselves into thinking they won just because they died with more toys or money. Which do you want to be?

[Mixxit]

SITM basically summed it up. Apparently you've never worked in the service industry.

Personally I would rather decide what someone's service was worth rather than having someone give me their choice of good or bad service for 7.00 per hour.

[The Source]

I hear most of those damn cabbies are into country music too..

[havyck]

Havyck,

You must enjoy upsetting applecarts and disturbing wasps nests!

To some extent your arguments (while unnecessarily vulgar) have some merit. There are people in the service sector who act as if a tip is an entitlement rather than what they were originally intended to be - a way of saying "thank you" to someone who has gone beyond the mere performance of thier job to try to make your experience, whether it be travel, a meal, what-have-you, more enjoyable or profitable.

If a waitress knew that all she was going to get at the end of the day was her hourly wage, what would her motivation be to go "beyond the call of duty"? Logically, she would take the order without a smile, not bother venturing an opinion as to what was "good" today, not worry too much about whether your water glass or iced tea was kept full, or any other of the dozens of things wait-staff do to earn a gratuity. Wouldn't be nearly as much fun eating out, would it?

Applying the same logic to cab drivers - they can be a great source of information. Good restaurants, hotels, even where to find the best hookers (since that seems to be an area of interest to you). If they knew no tip would be forthcoming, they would just say "Gee, I have no idea, buddy".

The hourly wage (or price per mile) is the "show up and do your job" pay. The tip is what someone who earns it by taking extra effort to serve the client gets in return for their extra effort.

Now, if your cabbie is rude and doesn't help with your luggage, stiff him. Same with a waiter or waitress who dumps your food on the table and disappears for the rest of your meal. I have refused to tip in such instances.

If everyone took your attitude, then cab rides and your meal at a restaurant (or pizza delivery for that matter) would cost more than than they do, and your cabbie or waitperson would likely not be nearly as pleasant or helpful. It's simple human nature. Take away the incentive of the tip and all you are left with is the simple discharging of a duty, and no employer can enforce a demand for more cheerful or helpful service - it's simply not quantifiable.

I think it's very sad that your attitude is "screw em" unless you are trying to build a "relationship" with someone you deal with often. Is someone less deserving of a few extra bucks for being more attentive or helpful than they have to be simply because you don't think you'll see them again? The next time you are the recipient of the kindness of a stranger, remember when you stiffed the waitress who busted her ass to make your meal more enjoyble.

One last thought. Givers leave the world a better place than they found it. Takers fool themselves into thinking they won just because they died with more toys or money. Which do you want to be?

Well, in case you haven't looked around, TAKERS rule. Givers drool. That's not my point. My point is, let's move beyond the status quo and create something better. Let's have the incentive to do a good job be, keeping the job and the good wage and the benefits because someone else will take it in a minute if you don't do it. This comes from employers taking care of employees and not shifting the burden to the customer, who out of GUILT or fear of reprisal gives the service worker money for doing his/her job. It's ridiculous. If we keep tipping we are enabling the status quo. People need to stop tipping to either force people out of service sector jobs and force employers to pay more or simply automate those tasks(like the monorail). That's all. I refuse to feel that I owe some waitress or cabbie a tip because the job pays crap. And cabbies in vegas are NOT good sources of information, they are self interested scavengers. They often have deals with local clubs to "steer" patrons to that particular club for a cut. In other words, bottom feeders. I particularly hate people who force you to let them provide a service as a way to leverage a tip. For example not being able to carry your own bags to your room. I mean, I can do it, just because you run off with my bags and bring them to my room doesn't mean you deserve anything. Don't get me wrong, some service workers are GREAT people and I don't mind tipping those people but in general I'm opposed to the current scheme and REFUSE to accept responsibility for some scrooge employer who's just after a fatter wallet than mine.

[daveybabes]

Is this still a drum forum?

We don't have a bona fida tipping system in the UK so maybe u have to come and live here, we don't have strip clubs either. so maybe u won't.

[Boingo]

The expansion card won't be released soon enough!!!!!

You want to know who the Scrooge is, look in the mirror. Instead of finding a way to deal with or punish what you consider as the source of the problem (the employer), you choose to take it out on the employee. Someone trying to earn a living.

The satisfying thing about all this is thinking there may be some justice. Either you eat at a different places each time you go out for a meal or you eat more spit and possibly many more vile items than you may be aware. Because once the word is out that the "big tipper" is in the house, God knows what flavor enhancers are being added to your food. (Big Grin right back at you. You asked for this. )

[jammin777]

[QUOTE=Boingo;331400]The expansion card won't be released soon enough!!!!!

he he yes i agree ! I think that there is alot of tension going on around here because of that dam expansion card! only a couple weeks to go guys! easy now!

[saku]

Havyck,

You must enjoy upsetting applecarts and disturbing wasps nests!

To some extent your arguments (while unnecessarily vulgar) have some merit. There are people in the service sector who act as if a tip is an entitlement rather than what they were originally intended to be - a way of saying "thank you" to someone who has gone beyond the mere performance of thier job to try to make your experience, whether it be travel, a meal, what-have-you, more enjoyable or profitable.

If a waitress knew that all she was going to get at the end of the day was her hourly wage, what would her motivation be to go "beyond the call of duty"? Logically, she would take the order without a smile, not bother venturing an opinion as to what was "good" today, not worry too much about whether your water glass or iced tea was kept full, or any other of the dozens of things wait-staff do to earn a gratuity. Wouldn't be nearly as much fun eating out, would it?

Applying the same logic to cab drivers - they can be a great source of information. Good restaurants, hotels, even where to find the best hookers (since that seems to be an area of interest to you). If they knew no tip would be forthcoming, they would just say "Gee, I have no idea, buddy".

The hourly wage (or price per mile) is the "show up and do your job" pay. The tip is what someone who earns it by taking extra effort to serve the client gets in return for their extra effort.

Now, if your cabbie is rude and doesn't help with your luggage, stiff him. Same with a waiter or waitress who dumps your food on the table and disappears for the rest of your meal. I have refused to tip in such instances.

If everyone took your attitude, then cab rides and your meal at a restaurant (or pizza delivery for that matter) would cost more than than they do, and your cabbie or waitperson would likely not be nearly as pleasant or helpful. It's simple human nature. Take away the incentive of the tip and all you are left with is the simple discharging of a duty, and no employer can enforce a demand for more cheerful or helpful service - it's simply not quantifiable.

I think it's very sad that your attitude is "screw em" unless you are trying to build a "relationship" with someone you deal with often. Is someone less deserving of a few extra bucks for being more attentive or helpful than they have to be simply because you don't think you'll see them again? The next time you are the recipient of the kindness of a stranger, remember when you stiffed the waitress who busted her ass to make your meal more enjoyble.

One last thought. Givers leave the world a better place than they found it. Takers fool themselves into thinking they won just because they died with more toys or money. Which do you want to be?

i live in several countries were tipping is not wide spread or allowed at all...and some where a 15% is autpmaticaly added to the price of your meal. in these countries we have mostly received exccellent service. not always but 96% of the time...

so I disagree about the incentive for tipping being the ONLY motivation for good labour...though i DO admit that it would be for some people....

[Mr Stixx]

Why people should be tipped for simply doing their job is beyond me. I just started working in a shop and its my first time in retail. I spend time with people to make sure they are getting what they want and are happy but I dont expect anything extra for it, its my job.

Most people who are tipped are the ones who deal with the public but at the end of the day, is it not their job to smile, be nice, make sure everthing is right and that the customer is happy? How do these people go beyond there duty? If they save me from a fire or from a speeding car, fine but not for refilling your glass or opening a door.

As for these places that already charge the tip to your bill, thats just wrong. Is it not suppose to be the customers choice?

Im not against tipping but it should be earned, not expected and I hate the fact that most people do it just so they dont look bad or maybe get a bad meal the next time the visit a place. The whole attitude and reason towards tipping is just wrong now.

[drdigital]

Did you just get through watching Reservoir Dogs?
When I tip I get good service, especially the next time I eat there.
They get to know my name, and sometimes I will get "comps"
As a musician you are part of the service industry too.
Has no one never handed you a $20 to play "that special song" for them?
That's called a tip! It's like saying please and thank you, almost at the same time.

You sound very embittered. You should not judge people who
are in a different place in life than you.
As much as you think you know about people, you really don't.

[TheCoda]

In the U.K I think it's even illegal to automatically add a tip to the bill, but that doesn't stop some places. In Czech republic here, tipping is very rare, in fact what usually happens is you just round up the bill to the nearest round figure, so that the waiter(ess) doesn't have to scramble around for change, I.E if your bill is 478 crowns, then you'd usually just give 500 and be on your way. Saying that, service here is generally terrible, it's common to get your food cold, or not all together, and if you get a smile, wake up, because you are dreaming about somewhere else...

[eric_B]

I think tipping is very different from country to country and even town to town. There is no 'general rule' which applies everywhere. In some countries I've visited, the wages are so low, tips are needed just to give someone a decent income. And in some places a certain percentage is added to the bill as a rule. Not sure who benefits from that, but life is like that. Accept it or don't, you're not gonna change it.

[bogiesbad]

OK...the time is right:

What is the difference between havyck and a canoe?

[Some Day Grey]

...They often have deals with local clubs to "steer" patrons to that particular club for a cut...

That is very true; I know it to be a fact here in Myrtle Beach, SC. The strip clubs (known here as "Gentlemen's Clubs") pay taxi drivers anywhere from $5-$20 per person for bringing patrons to their venues.

Expanding this topic to tipping overall as this is a drum forum, I agree with drdigital about the fact that musicians can be part of this practice. Although tipping is pretty much an automatic expectation in some vocations such as wait staff, hotel workers, etc - if someone provides an exceptional personal service, or does a special favor in many such situations, a tip is likely in order.

Certain service industry jobs - wait staff being the main one that comes to mind - are exempt from minimum wage laws solely because of the common nature of tipping.

But when you have to repeatedly use a particular service during business and/or other travel, constant tipping can be a burden - especially in resort areas where the workers have an attitude when it isn't sizeable. I used to offer an explanation like "this was the 5th time today I've taken a cab", etc, but now I don't travel as much and prefer to just rent a vehicle when I do travel.

If I were a gigging drummer and someone had a special request, I'd think a tip may be in order but certainly wouldn't be disappointed if the person didn't tip and the request was nothing out of the ordinary.