Isn't country and western an inferior form of music?

[havyck]

Given that fact that none of the great drummers of our lifetime have been country and western drummers? I mean c'mon. Bozzio, Peart, Jimbo, Donait. None of these guys gave it up for country. I mean Rod Morgenstein did some country stuff with the Dregs but no one has devoted his life to country because it's CRAP drumwise. There are some interesting piano and violin parts but other than that....doo doo.

[Herl]

Given that fact that none of the great drummers of our lifetime have been country and western drummers? I mean c'mon. Bozzio, Peart, Jimbo, Donait. None of these guys gave it up for country. I mean Rod Morgenstein did some country stuff with the Dregs but no one has devoted his life to country because it's CRAP drumwise. There are some interesting piano and violin parts but other than that....doo doo.

Metallica is the worst jazz, I ever heard.

What I mean is that the term inferior requires something to be inferior TO

[zekedrum]

You need to read the credits on some of today biggest Country artist and see who is doing to recording for them
Vinnie Colaiuta does almost all of Faith Hills records and some of her live dates
Kenny Aronoff does a ton of recording and live playing in Nashville .
John "JR" Robinson does a ton of country artist
So there is 3 of the top session players in the world playing inferior music LOL.
I was in Nashville a few years back and went to a clinic give by Paul Leim ( (another A session guy) He walked in to the clinic didn't say a word set down at the kit and just ripped some of the fastest stuff I ever heard ( including as I suppose you like double bass licks) . Then he came to the mic and proceded to say "now let me show you how to make 6 + figures a year" , then he played a straight forward AC/DC Phil Rudd / Country beat.
Just because a drummer plays country don't think its a inferior style music or he in lesser a player..
Trust me I use to think the same thing but when you are trying to make a living playing music you need to be more open minded to all styles .

[dschrammie]

Given that fact that none of the great drummers of our lifetime have been country and western drummers? I mean c'mon. Bozzio, Peart, Jimbo, Donait. None of these guys gave it up for country. I mean Rod Morgenstein did some country stuff with the Dregs but no one has devoted his life to country because it's CRAP drumwise. There are some interesting piano and violin parts but other than that....doo doo.

wow dude...you are an ignorant jackass.
I've heard some rude stuff here and I've spoken my mind about it, but I think you just took the prize. Did you say that on purpose just so you could generate a little controversy?
You're a chump. You're comments aren't worth the wasted bandwidth.

[Boingo]

Did you say that on purpose just so you could generate a little controversy?

I'd say yes and he certainly pushed your button.

I think things are a little slow while waiting for the expansion card to come out.

[Relayer]

I think they should use Neal Peart as a country session guy - let him fill every inch of space with mathematical splendor - no wait - that's the dude from Dream Theater...or is it Tool? I forget.

Cheers.

Steve

[stickinthemud]

I think dschrammie summed it up pretty well, but allow me to embellish...

I have been helping a friend do some recordings of his material that is akin to country in many respects - simple beats (lots of cut time), relatively few fills, no odd meters (for the most part) and believe me, I would not rate as "inferior" any drummer who can record a steady beat with sensitivity toward the overall performance.

OK, maybe the drummers who seek the high-profile kind of gigs shy away from C&W because it does not provide a showcase for their incredible prowess, but to dis the entire genre just because it doesn't rock with a capital R is, IMO, rather shallow, and shows a lack of true musical depth.

[V(ader)DRUMMER]

You should track down a copy of the January/February 2008 issue of Drumhead magazine. There's a whole article on the new generation of country drummers. It's mostly a joint interview with Mitch Marine (Dwight Yoakum, Brave Combo) and Jim Riley (Rascal Flatts). Both are veterans of the renowned College of Music at the University of North Texas and have played many, many styles beyond just country. Given the size of their paychecks and the depth of their credentials, I could find many words to describe their talents. "Crap" would not be one of them.

[havyck]

I never said if you play country you're crap, I said the style is crap and this is evidenced by the fact that great drummers don't devote their careers to it. Take what Bozzio does in his concerts and clinics, it ain't country, why, because that style is boring. Ever watch an Akira Jimbo video, where are the country examples? He does uber technical jazz and rock fusion stuff. Why? It's challenging and gives you room to express yourself. The new Thomas Lang video has tons of examples of challenging stuff, no country grooves. No country on the Marco Minneman solo albums. Obviously if you need to make rent you play what pays, that doesn't make it good.

[Big Bopper]

You've got all kinds of problems here, havyck, with terms that you don't define or define in your own peculiar fashion.

What is a 'great' drummer? The guy with the bubble (360+) kit who plays so fast his triplets sound like thunder? Or is it the guy who manages to feed his family while staying away from the things that kill other drummers such as alcohol (Bonham) and drugs (Keith Moon)? Rock drummers may have more flash (which is arguable) but they are frequently like shooting stars, blazing brightly but only for a very short time. Many country drummers (and I'm not a big fan of country but I wouldn't call it 'inferior' or 'doo doo') have very long and successful lives, while many rock drummers can't seem to manage it.

And what does it mean to "be challenging, and gives you room to express yourself?" In what way is a country drummer not "expressing" himself? Just because he likes what he does, is good at it, and it's paying the bills but he won't end up in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame does not mean there is no expression. What he's doing is expressed with his life, not just with his drums. There is, after all, more to life (and art) than drumming.

Shalom
Bruce

[Picksorsticks]

Country is just one of many genres...it isn't a drum centered style of music.

The drumming should be part of and support the song. If that's what the drummer does, he's doing his job. You keep the beat, the tempo, are a foundation for the song, not always the centerpiece of the music. If you want to be flashier, then don't play country.

Ringo gets knocked for not doing more but as part of "the song" what he did was very good.

Each style has it's beats, grooves, etc.....

Imagine Keith Moon on a Sinatra song, it just wouldn't work...or a basic country groove on "Won't Get Fooled Again".....it just wouldn't work.

Bigger, faster, odd time signatures, more notes isn't always better......whether it's on drums or guitar....

we saw a klezmer ( Jewish, eastern european flavored, clarinets and accodrion) band last week. Their drummer had a tiny kit, a bass drum, a snare a really tiny cymbal and one more not much bigger.....he did what fits that style. It was a very enjoyable show at a neighborhood street fair. Terry Bozio's mega-kit would have been very out of place here

If you don't like country then that's Ok, but it's not inferior, just different.

Michael

kit upgrade in progress

[V(ader)DRUMMER]

If you don't like country then that's Ok, but it's not inferior, just different.

Well put, Picksorsticks.

Here are a few quotes from Mitch Marine in the aforementioned Drumhead article that I think are very relevant here:

"You can't afford to close off your ears if you're a working drummer. No matter what level you're at. I recently had an experience with a young rock drummer here in L.A. I play some rock gigs and he was in a group of friends that would come out. He came to see me with Dwight and said, "That's not so hard, what you do back there with that train beat." I agreed, but then he got a country gig and I went to see him. He was sweatin' it! He could play it, but it didn't feel great. Technique is only part of the battle."

"Whether I'm under qualified or overqualified, I'm there because I bring the right energy. The people that hire me are happy I'm there. I've done the necessary prep work. I'll play what is appropriate and make it feel good whether it's simple or complex. I might just play ride and hats all night, but it feels great to the band when I'm doing my job. That means I'm going to work."

[Charly]

C&W?

I remember seeing a video of a Garth Brooks (Brooks with an 'e'?) show on television many many years ago.

People on this site go on and on and on about Peart and his A-Kit backed onto a (questionably DIY) E-Kit. However, the thing that struck me on the GB show was the drummer - fully A-Kit (as far as I can remember) white shells, with red shell hardware (as far I can remember; very many years ago). Basically he had a 360deg kit that he must have been lowered into.

I know a bit kit isn't a sign of greatness (Put Chan Smith behind a modest 5 piece and he's as tight as a duck's rear end) but what this guy was pulling off was immense.

To call C&W in an online board that is mostly frequented by Americans (sorry for the typecast) is inciting some kind of negative feedback at best.

I know GB is probably commercial nonsense and will gripe people if I associate it with C&W, but c'mon. 'Gateway drug' and all that.

[Canerican]

So I guess that that rules out Mozart, Beethovan, Vivaldi as decent musicians... and don't get me started on folk and acoustic music...

I personally don't like country, but I can appreciate its merits and influences on society...

[Herl]

Metallica remains the worst jazz I ever heard.