Neil's new kit

[Mick Wade]

This is something I found on one of the forums at mikeportnoy.com:

well i have some info on Neil Peart's kit for the upcomming tour. apparently he will be using his "back 40" kit as well as his normal rig. my contact at Wuhan had said they were making him a bunch of 17" chinas for his front kit and 19" for his back kit. (he'll only use one of each but he needs back ups)
i've also been told that dw is making neil a few new drums (rumour is an actual GONG BASS drum to replace the suspended 18" he used last time, and a few piccolo toms, (those terry bozzio things), and i think someone stated that they were making dummy shells for his electronic pads. didn't get any info on them but could be true...'
also i would guess he's using Roland V drums now...

If the above information is true, then first of all I'm glad to hear he's keeping the electronics as part of his live kit. Secondly, as I believe I stated in another thread, Neil would look mighty spiffy parked behind a set of (albeit altered) V-drums....

[puttenvr]

Since Neil plays DrumWorkshop I miss the percussive sound he always had. And the Rush albums don't shake me anymore ...

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by Harlock:
Maybe a mixing change?

No. It's the DW drums. Far overrated American brand.

[deus62]

Yo!

*lol*

[puttenvr]

Yeah, correct. I know about the fibre inside his drum shells. But I have heard some drummers before who played birch Yamaha 9000 drums or any top of the line maple kit. They all had a very open, percussive sound and that sound disappeared when they switched to DW drums. To me they (DW) sound fat, low and perhaps even a bit dull. But that's just a matter of taste.

DW makes fine drums, but they are a hype, overprized and over-rated. And that's not just a taste!

[Boingo]

Originally posted by puttenvr:
DW makes fine drums, but they are a hype, overprized and over-rated. And that's not just a taste!

When it comes to MI, I find that just about all top of the line stuff meets this criteria. When you go from middle of the line to top of the line which might be an increase of 15% in quality, or functionality the price usually increases way more than 15%. You gotta pay to play!

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by Boingo:
When it comes to MI, I find that just about all top of the line stuff meets this criteria. When you go from middle of the line to top of the line which might be an increase of 15% in quality, or functionality the price usually increases way more than 15%. You gotta pay to play!

I agree. Certainly since today mid-line kits are well manufactured more and more. When you go to budget kits, then things change. In general budget kits are made of another maple or birch than top line kits. But mid-line kits are good enough for most of us.

[fartnokker]

I think it was the thick shells on the Artstars that gave it such a bright sound, and I agree that it was cooler.

-Danny

[acidbran]

I for one am so sick of seeing DW drums everywhere I look.

They are becoming ubiquitous.
The Mini van of drums.
And I know a lot of drummers having problems with finishes and hardware finishes not lasting very long.

If a CB 700 set can hold together for ten years then a DW set should NEVER fail.

Yamaha all the way for me. IMHO

[Billonakona]

Still playing my Pearl Export kit from 1989 - toured the UK, some European countries, recorded with it, played in pubs to 4 people and sold-out shows to 2 - 3,000 people, festivals, ferries, open-air gigs etc - still going strong! Sounds great, plays great and fits like an old glove.

Have had many opportunities to upgrade to top-of-the-range stuff, but somehow can't seem to do it - I do buy lots of snares though!

[fartnokker]

Here I go again on the soapbox, but:

The reason you see DW all over the place is that they really make a superior product. The instruments are well-crafted from some of the finest materials in the world, the finishes are second to none, the hardware is sturdy/logical/functional, and drums just plain sound great.

Go to a music store & demo some PROPERLY TUNED drums side-by-side, and of the major manufacturers, DW seems to sound better to the majority of consumers' ears. It is a purely subjective thing, but if ease of tuning, clarity, sustain, strong fundamental note, and other traditional musical instrument scales are used to measure them, DW measure up. Well.

As for muddiness on recording, you can't blame that on the drums. I know first hand that you can make damned near any decent drum sound like almost anything, using EQ & other effects, when recording & mixing. Any drum can be anything from super-bright to indistictly muddy, if you twist a few knobs.

Once again, it is a case of "They're the big guy now, so (just on principle) we must hate them." Just like Microsoft, GM, Starbucks, the U.S.A.

Yes, other drum manufacturers make fine products that sound great and are well-made, but don't think that DW doesn't, either. Why do you think so many people pay for their products when they can choose anything else? And, as for endorsers, why do you think that so many people choose DW to go with over almost any other manufacturer that they could work with? Better product.

Some items that set DW apart:
- DW pedals, the most popular high-end pedals, period. Smooth, sturdy, transparent.
- Early pioneering of widespread RIMS mounting
- Timbre-matching shells for kits
- fine-pitch threads to prevent detuning
- the list goes on and on

As for my bias, my kits include Roland, Yamaha, and a homemade custom job. The only DW drum I own is a snare, along with Yamaha, a couple of Ludwigs, and a Tama.

Just my opinion, but don't knock it till you play it.

-Danny

[fartnokker]

[puttenvr]

Danny, ofcourse you're right. DW manufacts excellent drums. I said that before. But
a. I don't like them
b. there a drums which are good as well
c. I no longer like the Neil Peart's sound (realize I am a die-hard Rush fan) and I didn't like the Saga drum sound (when Steve Negus played DW, before switching to Vdrums), in Holland a drummer had a better sound with his Pearl Masters and Noble & Cooly set than with DW, et cetera.

"Lots of people buy DW so it must be good" you (more or less) say. But don't underestimate the fact that lots of famous drummers play DW, lots of endorsers. There we go. Tama was a similar MUST amoung metal drummers. Ludwig was had a STATUS in the 1970s. And ofcourse the availability of a brand plays a part. Premier and Sonor drums - for instance - aren't widely spread oversea and are quite expensive when compared to Europe. We know this from e-drums. Every shop in the US has a Roland kit, only a few ddrum. In Holland we say The farmer doesn't eat to what he insn't familiar

Back to the DW hype. Timbre matching is one of them. Do you think John Good still timbre matches all the shells DW sells, him self? (they say so) Come on... And why should DW not sell a 13 inch tom if the customer likes to have one? Or: will DW refuse to sell a 13 inch tom tom inside a 10-12-14 set which is so well timbre matched? I don't think so.

Nevertheless: good drums. But not for me.

PS: the question is not only what happened to Neil Peart's drum sound, BUT also: what the hell happened with Rush? I don't like their new album at all. Also DW's fault

[fartnokker]

Hey Putt, lemme clear a couple thing up... I didn't mean to come off sounding like "Lots of people buy DW so it must be good." Heck, lots of people buy Hyundai cars, but I think they blow!

Sonor drums (very good, good-sounding, but quirky-tuning-keyed) aren't as widely available in the U.S., but Premier drums are. You can get them in any Guitar Center all over the country, and at a better price than most comparable professional drums. They are less expensive than Pearl, DW, etc. I'm referring to the top pro-line drums, of course - not to the entry-level kits. I think Premier makes some nice drums, especially the Signia & Genista kits.

As for the D-Dub drums, they really do sound quite good when compared side-by-side with other premium drums. "Good" sound is a matter of individual preference, tho, and I respect that you don't go for their sound. Different strokes, as we say...

As for Neil, I think the drums sound muddy on Vapor Trails, but then again, so does most of the album. I think they made a helluva good record with some great songs & fine performances, but mixing & mastering didn't do them any justice. Just my opinion, though.

What happened to Rush? They're 5 or 6 years older, and like most of us, they haven't remained stagnant over that period of time. Their individual tastes & influences have changed, and that is reflected in their music.

Think of it this way, Putt: Does "Fly By Night" or "Caress of Steel" sound very much like "Permanent Waves" or "Moving Pictures"??? Well, the same amount of time has passed since "Test For Echo" as did between those albums!!!!!

They've grown and changed over these years, but weren't making records that documented the gradual transition, so it seems kinda abrupt for some of us.

Once again, just my perspective.

-Danny

P.S.- I think the "farmer" thing lost a little something in translation...

[JeffVA]

Originally posted by puttenvr:
what the hell happened with Rush? I don't like their new album at all. Also DW's fault

I have found that I had to listen about 5 times to each new Rush album since presto to "get it." The new album is VERY VERY GOOD!!!! but you will not think so until you have spent time with it. As I got back to my earlier years with Rush, I realize I was SO MUCH YOUNGER!!! But now, being in my 30s (and even back in my 20s) I was more prone to be critical of Rush as their sound evolved. I too am a die-hard and find that after having about a month with Vapor Trails, I am "getting it" and am VERY excited to be seeing them in just under a months time! I have not seen them for 18 years!

Ciao,

Jeff