OFF TOPIC - Nukes.....??

[sepdrums]

So I am watching CNN, and somewhat following the India / Pakistan conflict. Nukes?? I am not very political nor do I follow government conflicts, etc... Some of you here are very educated and knowledgeable when it comes to govt. functions, war, etc... What is the deal?? They are already estimating death tolls...is this iminent?? WTF??

Erik

[GRRAVEE]

actually we are very close to seeing one launched......i don't side with either pak or ind but i do know pak has not had a decent budget for military forces,nor did they have a need until recently.but they do still have nuc capabilities.they are quite possibly at risk of losing what's theirs to india...being in there situation i might wanna do the same.i dont condone nuc warfare.nor either cause to this point.just stating a possible and not to far fetched scenario.....

[cpgrossman]

I await for some right wing crap to be posted, anyone?

[Billonakona]

Hi Guys

If you want to know more on the origin of the conflict, check out Patrick French's book Liberty or Death which addresses the break up of the Indian subcontinent at Independence, leaving Kashmir in isolation and Pakistan as a single country divided by a huge swathe of India. One piece eventually became Bangladesh.

It was a desperate and bloody affair.

Kashmir became an Indian province partly due to a British civil servant drawing convenient lines on a map; and partly due to the local leader deciding to side with the minority poltical / religious groups / views.

Same as it ever was guys.....it's the little people who will suffer.

Peace to all.

[ufotofu]

Originally posted by Billonakona:
it's the little people who will suffer.

Exactly. Look at the innocents in Afganistan who are regularly killed and written off as "collateral damage" -- victims of the vaguely-defined "War on Terrorism" (a war of "good" versus "evil" according to Bush). Any normal human being who does such a thing (kill an innocent) is considered a murderer and held responsible (hopefully) for his actions. But not government. When government does it, cold-blooded murder transforms from a brutal, inhumane, deplorable act to an honorable cause.

I say bullsh1t. A murderer is a murderer. I fully support the idea of bringing those *responsible* for criminal acts to justice, but never, under any circumstances, should an innocent life be sacrificed for a "greater" cause.

[FloridaDrummer]

I know I'm opening up a can of worms here, but I'm going to anyway.

I fully support the idea of bringing those *responsible* for criminal acts to justice, but never, under any circumstances, should an innocent life be sacrificed for a "greater" cause

Do you think that Hitler could of been stopped without innocent lives being lost. If you truely mean that under no circumstances should an innocent life be lost, then how do you defeat the monsters like Hitler, Bin Laden, etc. Are you saying that no one should go after them because innocent people will be hurt. If that is true, do we let those people have free rein in our society and do whatever they want too. I do not want any innocent person to be killed and I feel for the families that have been affected, but what would your suggestion be for stopping the Hitlers and the Sadam's out there.




[This message has been edited by FloridaDrummer (edited June 01, 2002).]

[fartnokker]

Amen. Matter of fact, I'll go as far as to say that I see military action the same as voting for public officials:

If you didn't vote, you have no right to complain.

If you didn't serve your country, you have no idea what it is like or what factors are considered, and you are merely talking out of your a$$. Nothing personal to anyone, but nobody likes an armchair quarterback.

FWIW, Pakistan has tactical nuclear capability, and in the last decade, India has developed a theater delivery system (read: ballistic.) It'll be ugly, regardless who shoots first.

If you try to reason with a vicious dog, you'll feel morally superior in your pacifism as he tears your throat out. If you kick him square in the chops, you may accidentally end the life of the innocent flea on his skin, but you've also effectively deterred the dog from not only mauling you, but your children & many other innocents.

The vicious dog doesn't care if you prefer tofu because meat is murder, or that you think that violence begets violence. He really, really doesn't care, and will continue to be violent until physically stopped.

Having the moral courage to make the tough decisions, knowing that there will be losses on both sides (which you'll be crucified by the media for, no matter what) in order accomplish greater good & spare even more innocent lives in the long run is much tougher than doing nothing and idly *****ing about what others do.

Neither Pakistan nor India is going to do this without a bunch of consideration. One thing to remember though: only one nation has ever nuked another nation in wartime, and in doing so they won the war. Don't think that this simple lesson is wasted on the governments of the world. Food for thought...

Right-Wing Tirade ends.

-Danny
Not an NRA member, don't own a gun, but I'll beat your a$$ for burning my flag.

[cpgrossman]

Ah-now how did I know before hand that tofu would post.But this time fart is the horses ass.a flag is a piece of cloth.nationalism died in 1914-18 so your ideas are about 90 yrs. old. (its o.k a lot of the people on this site ideas of music come from about 1850)

[cpgrossman]

P.s I feel real-REAL sorry for you. wanting to hurt a person over a cloth.

[GRRAVEE]

it's not the material it's what it represents.i got yer back on the flag farty.

[FloridaDrummer]

Originally posted by GRRAVEE:
it's not the material it's what it represents.i got yer back on the flag farty.

While my blood boils when someone burns the flag, they have a constitutional right to do it. You can't have it both ways guys, you can't talk about freedom on one side and curtail it on the other.

[Cyberjam]

Shudder...

The whole eighties and MAD comes to mind. During that time my friends and I worried very little about the super powers squaring off. The superpowers had enough sense to know that the world would be over in an instant with a nuclear conflict of any size.

My friends and I were smart enough to know that it may indeed be the bananna republic with nukes that will eventually fry us all.

How does one fight an enemy that is willing to kill itself in the process of killing you? The Pakistani do indeed have an arm of the Taliban running a good percentage of the army in that country.

The troops are massing.

Shudder...

[shawnguess]

fart is dead on with everything he said, in my opinion, with the exception of the flag. i agree that its burning is wrong, but i also see it as ones right to do so. the dog was an excellent analogy by the way.

[fartnokker]

I'm glad that some others share my opinions, and understand those of you who differ over desecration of the flag. Beauty of our system is that we can disagree and do our own thing.

If I beat a flag-burner, I'm breaking the law, and may well be punished. So be it; I'll endure it with a clean concience. Freedom of choice in action.

Gross man, you observe that I'm a horse's ass. I've been called worse by much more literate folks, and the shoe may well fit. But, please, don't feel sorry for me... I'm sure I'm a much happier guy than you, my man. If you don't like patriotism, maybe you should go live somewhere else, more fitting for you. Flame on, flamer.

FloridaDrummer, I think I understand from whence you come, bro, but I respectfully disagree. Absolute freedom is anarchy, which would give me the right to kill anyone I see fit, with absolutely no cause or reason. It is a crime to deface U.S. currency, or to deface public property, and I consider the flag to be no less symbolic than either. Semantics, for sure.

And lastly, how do you fight an enemy willing to die for their cause? Eradication.

Oh well, I've got no more to say on this subject. Back to the purpose of the site.

-Danny

[FloridaDrummer]

I would be standing next to you to help beat them up, so we do agree. It is just that they have a right to freedom of expression, no matter what anybody else thinks of it. As long as they don't hurt anybody or property, then they can say what they want, just like we can. Beating them up would be wrong, but it would be fun