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**puttenvr** · 05-17-02, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by c. jude:
While I do not and will not advocate copying copyrighted material, all the ddrum samples are readily available all the net in various sample formats.

Show me the hill...

Originally posted by c. jude:
I've even seen 24bit versions of some from the original samples,

Ahhh... 24 bit samples from 16 bit sounds?

**jrcel** · 05-18-02, 01:56 PM

Sonic Implants, Interactive Drums, Drum Doctor.

**puttenvr** · 05-19-02, 01:02 AM

[quote]Originally posted by c. jude:

The newer ones obviously were recorded 24bit and dithered down to 16 for use in the limited realm of a drum module.

Sure. But this means only the Clavia team has the 24 bit sounds. Not some people on the internet.

Besides: most Mega Drum kits have 7 velocity layers. There aren't much samplers who can hold them all. So to chace the ddrum sounds is useless. Leave alone the copyrights you already mentioned yourself ...

**jrcel** · 05-19-02, 05:40 PM

Emu samplers can hold as many layers as you want and cross switch any way you like. Internal processing on non-Ultra E4's is 24 bit, 32 bit on all Ultra's. All Kurzweil's from K2000 series released in 1992 to present have 32 bit internal processors. I'd like to answer the reliability issue raised on this forum about Kurzweil. Early K2000VP's were shipped with bad floppy drives that Kurzweil replaced at their expense. I own a K2000VPR and it's built like a tank to military spec, as a matter of fact the US Navy uses Kurzweil for a miriad of aplications. It's more solid than my E4.
There is a difference between internal processing and output digital to analogue converters {dac for short}. New Emu samplers use 20 bit output dac's while Kurzweil use 24 bit dac's with a constant clock rate of 44.1 khz, Emu is switchable between 44.1 khz and 48 khz. The only reason you have to be aware of output clock rate is when you're samling directly from a Dat player into a samplers digital inputs. Dat's record at 48 khz meaning that the machine has to be swaitched to 48 khz or the samples don't alise correctly and digital noise results. Other than that, just use your ears

[This message has been edited by jrcel (edited May 19, 2002).]

**puttenvr** · 05-20-02, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by c. jude:
I guess what I'm trying to say is; try not to take anything and everything you perceive as a threat to your revered ddrums quite so seriously. A member asked about ddrum samples in other sample formats and I answered accurately about availability along with giving some opinions as well.

c.jude, I guess we misunderstood. dw4me asked about ddrum samples, and you told him that there are ddrum samples on the internet. Although I am a frequent internet user I never found them. Nevertheless I was curious about which companies or where people offer those ddrum sounds on the internet while there are so many other sounds and sample cd's on the market. Just curious. I don't want those sounds (I already have ddrum sounds). But I am just curious about the sence of doing this. Period.

The discussion left its path when you started talking about the 16 and 24 bit format. As I said before: I don't give a damn **** about the number of bits. There are more important things for sampling a good sound. And I have heard 12 bit sounds who blowe away every contemporary sound. That's why it seemed so ridiculous to me that people convert 16 bit sounds into 24 bit format. That's all.

Last but not least: I talked about the velocity layers inside the ddrum Mega Drum Kits. If jrcel is right (samples can hold as many layers as you want) and you know that a ddrum module uses 7 layers: then (again) why chacing ddrum sounds, when there are other or even better sounds? It's useless.

You see: no ddrum is the best propaganda. Sonor is the best. ddrum is second

**jrcel** · 05-20-02, 01:48 PM

CD Roms come with ready made kits on them, you just load and play, Interactive Drums has something like 30 full drumkits with GM and quickload versions as well as some really large 32 meg individual kits ready to play, plus a collection of snare drums to mix and match. In the case of the E4, you can also have the machine Autoload any bank up to 128 meg when you power up which is just like a Rom box, so you can have a whole machine with up to 1000 patches ready to go when you turn the machine on. The days of spending hours writing drumkits for samplers is long gone and has been for a while. There are alot of misconceptions about these machines. If you don't believe me , order an E4 manual from Emu's website. What I like about working this way is you can go from the simplest load and play to really in depth sound design if you want. It's up to you.

[This message has been edited by jrcel (edited May 20, 2002).]

**jrcel** · 05-20-02, 04:56 PM

I haven't had to do much of anything to the CD roms I use, if you want to tweek you can, but that's true even with Vdrums. As far as hi-hat, I have set up my patches to use CC# 4 and it takes about 2 minutes per patch. If you're talking about an XV5080 I don't have any experience with that machine so I really don't know other than it has some ability to load and play back some samples to 128 meg, although Roland has never really given many options for realtime control other than standard keyboard functions. I don't use a keyboard to play my samplers, I use pads. Like I've said many times before, use what you like. I just wanted to clear up a couple of misconceptions surrounding the subject. You're initial statement of taking months or years to make CDroms playable hasn't been the case for me, I have owned a couple of old samplers that were a huge pain in the ass but that was a while ago. I haven't had to use non Emu formated CD's so I haven't had to load individual samples either. I don't want to start an argument, I just wanted to explain a couple of things.

[This message has been edited by jrcel (edited May 20, 2002).]

**jrcel** · 05-20-02, 05:31 PM

I was just asking, not being a smart ass, I removed that post because it might be taken the wrong way. Not using V's but I had a TD-10 module for a month to try out, I liked the sounds on it but thought it was a little pricey, I paid less for my E4XT and K2000. Not for me at the time, but a helluva machine ust the same, the toms were killer with the expansion card and the outputs were hotter than either sampler. I've actually thought about getting another one since I have the sampler thing straightened out.

[This message has been edited by jrcel (edited May 20, 2002).]

**jrcel** · 05-20-02, 07:41 PM

On the E4, first I go into Master and set pedal to use CC#4, then enter edit mode and call up the voice, then go to cords and pick an empty one, set source as pedal and destination as volume envope decay, Venvdcy in Emu speak, then set a number between 36 and 50. When I first tried this I was stunned that it actually worked, it's one of the things that kept me away from samplers for a long time. I've tried this with a couple of makes, Peavey SP, an old Yamaha TX16W as well as a JV880 and an old Proteus 1, nothin. The beauty part is if the voltage of the module's CV iput is at a different range you can compensate at the cord setting page. I was lucky I just stumbled into the E4 on Ebay. I spent 3 months buying and trying out drum modules, I'd just sold my DTX kit for $900{yuk}, got fed up with modules and got on line, ran a search on Ebay for sampler and, I swear to god there were two identical E4XT samplers loaded with Esynth Rom cards, 128 voice expansion and 2 gig hard drives, being sold by Chris Walden, he was outfitting is studio with software stuff entirely, one was for $1000, the other was $950, buy it now feature. The auction was ending in 5 minutes so I just went f@$k it and bought it. It's the best money I've spent in 12 years of electronic instruments. If someting happened to it I'd take out a bank loan and buy a new Ultra a have it loaded. You can do the hi-hat thing with the K2000 as well, but it's a little more involved. The E4 is a workhorse in the true semse of the word. You might be able to do this with something else, it's somethng I'd like to explore at some point. I see E4, E6400 samplers all the time on Ebay for not alot of money, it's worth checking out.

[This message has been edited by jrcel (edited May 20, 2002).]

**jrcel** · 05-21-02, 02:33 PM

It indeed controls the volume of the decay only, leaving the attack portion unafected. I forget to mention te most important part of this, for some reason sound designers are using two envelopes to control the sound which I don't get for drums samples. You have to get rid of the Aux envelope by setting everything in it to a zero value. You want to use only the attack level, decay 1 and release 1 time values of the primary envelope. I want to be as generic as I can because I have no idea how it's set up in the 5080, I had a JV880 but I have the feeling the 5080 is way more advanced. It might be easier to try it first with the S5000, then with the 5080. You also must be sure the TD-10 transmits the CV values throught the midi ports. I'll download a manual for the S5000 and have a look at it.

**jrcel** · 05-21-02, 05:32 PM

No problem, I applied the same basic idea with the K2000 and it worked, which leads me to think it should work with any machine that will allow connecting foot control 4 to the amp envelope generator. As long as you can split it into attack, decay, release segments it should work. The boys at Emu and Kurzweil were no help at all, in fact they didn't even know you could do it. Come to think of it, it was kind of alot of work so there is something to what you said about samplers being more involved than other machines.

**jrcel** · 05-22-02, 07:06 PM

The writting is definately on the wall for me. Having a computer based sampling system is starting to make alot of sense, even inexpensive computers are starting to get faster and faster, I mean is there a hardware sampler that can match 2 ghz processors with 400 mhz front end bus speeds? Things are changing fast.

**v'ger** · 06-29-02, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by jrcel
The writting is definately on the wall for me.

Hi to everybody!

I've been reading this thread and others like it with interest because I am planning to equip my production studio with e-drum triggered samplers because it must be much more intuitive and quick to record that way, just like you say.

Question remains on the new triple triggered cymbals, so the question is if I need a TD-10 with the expansion, or can I make do with the cheaper TD-8 if it's for midi translation only? Or are the Clavia, Yamaha or Hart modules better when it comes to midi, does anyone know? Is it only controller data, or are there cumbersome sysex' to deal with?

I see people here are using samplers in your setups already and I must hand it to you, but what are your experiences so far? Are the samplers lacking in sensitivity or playability compared to the internal mod because of midi lag, or perhaps there are other issues one should be aware of?

Thanks for the detailed explanation about hh controller setup, C. Jude, and I too am looking keenly at the new Cubase SX machine interconnectivity to have the drums as part of my sequencer song setup with plugins and all. However, my shop informed me that you need to buy full seq. licences for each machine run which makes it an expensive option, though a brilliant solution..

A V-set with a laptop running a software sampler and an outboard midi\audio (Firewire?) on the stand would still be a neat setup, with only a few cables stretching to the main sequencer. Hell, it even sounds as if it could work live? (Prerecorded audio track on mute for total redundency, of course!)

'Bit expensive though, but hey.. 24\48 samples all round - sequencer sync - seperate channels to the main mixer, ummmm.. Nice time to be living!

Cheers!

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