TMC-6, what do I need to know?

[bermuda]

I just got the new trigger midi converter to add pads to my V Pro's. I took a quick look through the instructions, seems fairly simple I guess, talked about percussion groups or something.

Am I gonna run into problems with this? Anything I need to know before wracking my brain? Is it actually as simple as it should be? Would I have figured it out in less time than it took to make this post??

Normally I'd woodshed with the instructions, but I've got to get a bunch of parts transcribed, find a place for 2 new pads and the TMC on my rack, and make sure it all talks to the TDW-1... before Monday.

Thanks!

[jdsail]

It sounds like you're the first on this board to own the TMC-6. I'll be interested to hear just how good it works since I'd like to expand the number of inputs on my TD-10. Or, for an additional $400 I could buy a TD-8. Hmmmm.

[bermuda]

Really? Cool!

I had heard about it back in November at a V-Drum demo, and saw it at NAMM. I assumed it was already out there. That explains why when I asked Glenn at WLA Music if he had it, he said they just came in yesterday (Thursday.)

In that case, I should probably figure it out and then report back!

First impressions: it's about the size of a European VHS tape box and has the familiar mounting post; the actual rack mount assembly is extra, of course. The instructions are fairly concise, I'm guessing it's not hard to figure out. It has trigger type presets for a variety of pads, and input #6 is switchable to a HH controller.

I doubt that it has the capabilities of the old PM-16, which I still have and vaguely remember how to use. But it's much more portable, undoubtedly easier to operate, and I'm sure the midi is much faster. I was very pleased with how instant the midi is on the TD-10/TDW-1, and I'm sure this is up to speed as well.

Will let you know what I find as I explore further. I need to make it work within 48 hours, so check back by Sunday night for a full report!

Bermuda

[bermuda]

Okay, so it was a piece of cake after all. Took about 20 minutes to get my first sounds to work, should have taken about 2 minutes. Forgetting to match up the midi channel, getting one pad to work but not the other, and then realizing that each pad has different channels ate up 10 minutes alone!

So here's the drill for out-of-the-box use, with a few concepts first (for those who have never tried to hook up 2 midi devices):

Midi channels need to be matched, and obviously make sure the sound module is set to receive midi. Each pad on the TMC needs to be set to that channel in order to get a sound.

On the TD-10/W-1, the external triggering is done in one of 4 'percussion groups'. Although you can assign any instrument to the notes in that group, there are limited editing capabilities (specifically: no head type, muffling, strainer tension.) Also, and this IS important... if you select a different Percussion Group, the TMC will trigger the sounds set up in THAT group. And of course each program on the TD-10 is set to one of the 4 groups, so the sounds may change unexpectedly. With a little preset and programming coordination, there won't be too many surprises. I'm guessing/hoping there's a way to trigger sounds so they appear in the Kit edit window to enjoy all the sound parameters... anyone know for sure how to do that?

Anyway, let's go!

Assuming everything has been hooked up and pads are plugged in to the TMC... turn the unit on.

The TMC's display will show the current program # - you can set up to 12 different programs, each with independent parameters. I'm just using program 1.

1. Select pad type - on the TMC push EDIT button, turn the selection knob to TRIG TYPE, hit the specific pad, increment + or - until that pad's code appears in the display (there's a list in the manual and on the bottom of the TMC.) Repeat for each pad by striking that pad.

2. Select midi channel - While still in Edit mode, turn selection knob to MIDI CHAN, hit the specific pad, increment + or - until the desired channel is displayed. Repeat for each pad by striking that pad.

3. Select midi note - While still in Edit mode, turn selection knob to MIDI NOTE, hit the specific pad, increment + or - until the desired note is displayed. I chose notes 71-76, which fall within the Percussion Group I was about to choose (see below.) Repeat for each pad by striking that pad.

Press EDIT button to exit Edit mode.

Pick a program on the sound module (I am describing TDW-1, but the TMC manual also discusses the TD-8 and 6) and press KIT, F2, F1, and select a Percussion Group #, 1 thru 4 (I chose #4.) Cursor to the right, where you will see midi notes and sound assignments. Cursor up or down until you reach the midi note that you have set a pad to, and press F2 (edit) to call up a screen where you can re-assign whatever sound you like, and adjust some parameters. Once you're in that screen, you can cursor around to select the next midi note, assign its sound, and adjust its parameters. Note: the Percussion Group # selected applies to the program you're working in, and may be different (and may yield different sounds triggered from the TMC) when you change programs on the module.

When finished assigning notes & sounds, press EXIT a few times to escape, and you're all set!!

Pretty easy, eh? As usual, it was a lot of reading Roland's instructions - both the TMC and TD-10 manuals - and fumbling around, to accomplish what I described above in just a few sentences. There are obviously more pad settings and the TMC does appear to do a lot of tricks, but for getting up & running in literally 5 minutes, that's what ya need to know.

Hope it helps!

Bermuda

[This message has been edited by bermuda (edited March 02, 2002).]

[bermuda]

Just for fun, here's a pic of how the whole kit turned out. The TMC is just next to the TDW-1, and I was able to get the PD-80 pads "up" with a pair of Gibraltar rack/accessory clamps and cowbell/tom arms.

[Pleiadian]

Looks pretty cool, bermuda!

Thanks a lot for the info. I am thinking of getting a TMC-6 myself, and some additional PD-80's to connect to my TD8.

Just a remark, I'm not sure whether this is only true for the TD-8, it may also work for the TD-10 and/or TD-6.

Each kit on the TD-8 has sounds that can be defined for the rim of tom 1,2 and 3. However, you can not trigger them, because the inputs can not process two PD-80/120's (except maybe for the shacking/holy grail, which I've never tried)

However, you CAN trigger those sounds via Midi. I have connected a Yamaha DD-50 to my TD-8 and I use it to trigger the rim sounds on the toms. This way you can define additional sounds on a per kit basis.

So, with the TMC-6 (or any trigger to midi device) you're not completely limited to the percussion sets. Use it to send midi notes of the rim sounds of the toms. Of course, you can re-assign these sounds in the kit settings.

Again, I am only certain this works for the TD-8...

Rob

[bermuda]

Originally posted by Pleiadian:
Looks pretty cool, bermuda!...Each kit on the TD-8 has sounds that can be defined for the rim of tom 1,2 and 3. However, you can not trigger them, because the inputs can not process two PD-80/120's (except maybe for the shacking/holy grail, which I've never tried)

However, you CAN trigger those sounds via Midi.

Thanks, and I see that the TDW-1 will do that - VERY cool! Thanks!!

[digitsone]

i'd be very interested to know if the "holy-grail" or "shacking" techniques will work with this unit. it does have separate rim and head triggers for all 6 inputs, right? i would assume it would also work since roland probably just mined the triggering technology out of the td modules.

[bermuda]

Yeah, we wish. It would appear that only input #2 (labeled Snare) is set up for dual sounds. The upside is, you can split that to 2 pads, essentially getting 7 mono inputs.

However, when using the 3-way trigger (like on the new ride,) two stereo plugs are inserted into jacks 3 & 4. But I don't know if there's a way to 'fool' the TMC into otherwise dealing with 2 midi notes for every input.

[This message has been edited by bermuda (edited March 02, 2002).]

[digitsone]

Originally posted by bermuda:
Yeah, we wish. It would appear that only input #2 (labeled Snare) is set up for dual sounds.

interesting. i would have guessed if you used only piezo/fsr pads that you'd actually be able to get 12 inputs out of that little unit ... just like with the td-10. my rationale is really just that i wouldn't imagine they would feature the head/rim control so prominently if it didn't apply to all six inputs. have you tried using a pd-5/7/9 pad and assigning the the head and rim separately?

if that actually works i may have to pick up one of these - i need a trigger/midi converter for my acoustic triggers now that i have sold my td-10. then again, i could also get an alesis d4 on ebay for $150 and have 12 inputs, plus sounds, plus midi in/out. hmm.



[This message has been edited by digitsone (edited March 02, 2002).]

[bermuda]

Haven't tried dual triggers in single inputs yet, although each input's TRIG TYPE choices include the 8" & 12" dual trigger pads...

Will look into it asap.

[MPCman]

As far as I've read inputs 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are mono and input 2 is a stereo input.

If this brain would have more stereo inputs I'm sure Roland would have said so, because it doesn't make sense to not tell all the pro's of a product.

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[bermuda]

Originally posted by MPCman:
As far as I've read inputs 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are mono and input 2 is a stereo input.
If this brain would have more stereo inputs I'm sure Roland would have said so, because it doesn't make sense to not tell all the pro's of a product.

I agree that on first view, the only stereo in seems to be the snare. BUT, the manual describes putting two stereo plugs into inputs 3 & 4 (for the 3-zone cymbals.) It would seem that those inputs can tell what's stereo or mono, but I don't what the TMC does with those signals.

Also, the idea of most or all of the inputs on the TDW-1 accepting dual triggers had occurred to me a while back, and when I asked the guys in a Roland V clinic about it, they suggested that at least some of the inputs were capable of dual triggers, even though the kit isn't initially set up that way. I got the impression it was a bit of inside info.

I don't know how much of that has been discovered by users, but I'll bet the TMC also has a few secrets yet to be uncovered.

Bermuda

[digitsone]

Originally posted by bermuda:
[b]Originally posted by MPCman:
Also, the idea of most or all of the inputs on the TDW-1 accepting dual triggers had occurred to me a while back, and when I asked the guys in a Roland V clinic about it, they suggested that at least some of the inputs were capable of dual triggers, even though the kit isn't initially set up that way. I got the impression it was a bit of inside info.

in fact, they do advertise to that effect and most people are subsequently disappointed to find out that their piezo/piezo pads (the pd-120s) won't all offer seperate head/rim triggering out of the box.

my recollection is that the only physical mono inputs on thd td-10 are the aux inputs - the rest are certainly dual inputs that will work with any piezo/fsr pad or, with a the shack adapter our expert feefer was describing, will even work with pd-120.

if you're able to plug in a pd-5/7/9, access the rim and head separately and then trigger your td-10 then the tmc-6 most certainly works the same way.

i have a tough time believing that roland would only put mono inputs into this thing. ok, not that tough but still!

[Alexander]

Hey bermuda. I've noticed you've been Weird Al Yankovic's drummer since 1980. I used to dig the 'Eat It' sppof on Michael Jackson's 'Beat It', as a lad.

Are you using your V-drums exclusively now? No more acoustics? I wonder if you know many other pro drummers who've started using V-drums & ditched their acoustics?

& finally, what kind of amplification does your V-drum kit get? Thanx alot, Jon.