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Olbies agree? The V's don't cut it!

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  • Olbies agree? The V's don't cut it!

    So, I have made an interesting observation since I have been at this board: There are not many (if any) old timers (by this I mean V drum owners of more than 2 years) who are using their vdrums in unadulterated form.

    There are large numbers of vdrummers who have left their V's behind in preference for acoustics or different modules. Lee and Putt.

    Others are using sequencers and samplers to layer sounds or expand the v's repertoir. Feef and Szvook.

    Others still are combining the v's with acoustic cymbals/drums lots of others (including myself)

    So, obviously the V's just don't cut it on their own. Certainly once the honeymoon stage is over, people want more than the v's can provide.

    Comments? Let's hear from you oldbies still out there. (prove me wrong)
    Steve

    'I only ever quote myself - except when I quote someone else' - me

    , plenty of , and , , triggered acoustics, , and a plethora of PA blah blah freakin blah...I mean does anyone care about the specifics of pedals, speakers, processors, hardware or anything that I'm using?? :confused: Hmmm, maybe this is an appropriate place to mention that I tried out a new cymbal stand the other day...

  • #2
    i still on the honeymoon stage hhehee
    no comments
    td-8

    Comment


    • #3
      It is for the sheer reason of performance that combining the As with Es requires the Es to be compatible with the As in every sense (or as close as possible).

      By themselves the Es do not have the dynamics of the As and wont. But with additional support (outboard gear) the playing fields are leveled considerably in achieving a suitable result between the As and Es. Otherwise the Es are trying to play catch up and they can only do so much on their own.

      ------------------
      szvook
      Studio

      Comment


      • #4
        So, obviously the V's just don't cut it on their own. Certainly once the honeymoon stage is over, people want more than the v's can provide.

        Comments? Let's hear from you oldbies still out there. (prove me wrong)[/B]
        Hi Steve,

        I married a TD-7 for more then 5 years and I used it at rehearsals and on stage. I didn't like the cymbals and tried acoustics ones. It wasn't a solution for me because of the difference in volume at smaller gigs. So I went back to the cymbals of the TD-7 although I didn't like it.
        Like a real marriage you want to change your partner but at the end you have to live with the bad habits or separate. :-)
        The last two years I married more and more V-drum stuff and now I have everything of the concert-kit including the TD-10 brain. I think that the cymbal sounds of the TD-10 are much better. I still use only V-drum stuff at rehearsal and on stage. And because we invested a lot in monitoring me and my band likes it a lot. They never want me to play acoustics again!
        We have a small PA-set for smaller gigs. We build the speakers ourselves because most speakers we listen to at the store my td-10 didn't sound right. Especially my kick was awful. I need to feel my kick sound and most of the times it did give me only a click sound.
        I use only one kit no 39. I tuned it for our PA-set. For bigger gigs with bigger PA-sets I made a copy of no 39 and removed all the effects except EQ. So that gives me a dry sound for the PA-fellow.
        I do not use any outboard gear except two DI's so I need only 10 to 15 minutes to setup my kit.
        Before I play V-drum I played 7 years acoustics. Ones in a while I play on it so I won't lose the feeling of an acoustic set. But when I'm don playing the acoustics I'm always glad to play my e-drums again.
        So you see in my case the honeymoon is over for a long time and I still think its great to live with my E's and the V's. And there bad habits I can live with that.

        Greetings.

        Peter

        MrVrock


        ------------------
        My bands: Meneer Van Zanten and The Shed (sorry, both in Dutch but you can see the pictures, videoclips and listen to our songs)

        Comment


        • #5
          Well,maybe I'm wierd then,because I use my kit out still,and I now play with 2 totally different bands.
          My country group loves them.I will not be with that group much longer,way to many irons in the fire.
          I got a group of friends,and we put a band together a couple of weeks ago.We might as well call ourselves the old dogs.I'm the youngest member at 35!2 of the guys have played together for 20+ years,they met while playing for the same world known artist.It is so nice to work with talent and expierianced musicians again.They were sceptical at first,but they listened to a cd of my drums,then they heard them when we jammed together.They all liked them,even the 1 giutar player who said "real drums"is now convinced.By the way,he calls them acoustic and electric now after seeing how much of a ***** I can be.
          So,as for the time frame,I played a td-5 when they first came out incorparated to my a's,did not try a td-7,but when the td-10 first came out I snatched the first kit my music store got.After playing around with them for about 2 months,I sold my a's.So,I think I quallify for a old timer.Although I have hart pads and cymbals now,I have used the td-10 the entire time.Yes,you have to tweak a bunch till you get it where you like,but then you dont have to tune,retune,replace,etc......
          Sorry this has gone so long,but my overall point is,that if 3 acomplished musicians who have made thier living from playing music can agree with me that my weapon of choice is the right tool,then I think they are the right choice for me.Kind of makes you wonder about the guitar player that works at 7-11 during the day and plays music on weekends that dosen't like the sound of them huh?
          Later dudes.
          Bad karma

          Comment


          • #6
            I have used the E's only for the last 7 years. A TD-7 to a V-Pro set that has evolved to a V-Session kit with extra stuff. I am still really really happy with them as well as my band mates. I don't even own a set of A's anymore. The band hates playing gigs were we have to use a house kit of A's, stage volume is to loud. I have 100% no regrets in going with my E's there are to many advantages for me with them. I have NO desire at all to go back to A's, especially with the new cymbal triggers. I am not saying that one is better then the other I am just saying E's are my instrument of choice. In our band Bio I list my instrument as V-Drums and DO IT PROUDLY!!

            ------------------
            Ted H.
            www.tocsinrocks.com
            Ted H.

            Comment


            • #7
              Not totally ignoring the definition of the group that Steveo wants to respond, I'll spare you all the tons (even more than what I have actually posted below) I have to say on this, except for the following (I have followed e-drum technology somewhat over the last two decades of my drumming):

              1. Apples and Oranges

              2. Many of those questions will get different answers from different individuals based on their specific needs, experience and expectations.

              3. 90% or more of the people playing acoustic drums out there would probably sound better playing e-drums because (for starters) they cannot tune, set up, balance (and often) play worth a damn.

              4. IMO, there is no out of the box e-drum system available today that can be used as is at the serious professional level. They are however, finally to the point where they may can be made to work sufficiently in many of these applications with proper configurations.

              E-drums are ultimately, still more costly, and less subtly exressive than their acoustic cousins. Those who recognize their potential as an electronic mutation of an acoustic instrument will find rewards similar to what keyboardists have. Those who are looking to them as an improved version of acoustic drums have a flawed approach. Acoustic drum improvements are more likely to continue to gradually come via the manufacturers of acoustic drums as they have in the past. E-drums may eventually be able to do most or all of what A-s do, even out of the box (felt the action of a contemporary progressively weighted keyboard and heard the electric ("acoustic") sounds lately?). But that shouldn't be the goal posts. If we already have an acoustic instrument that does certain things, why worry about if and when the electronic offspring version can do the same? Why not concentrate on what the e-s do better or in addition? Just some thoughts.

              One other quick thing that's on target with recent discussions. If you are playing Vdrums live, or interested in doing so, depending on your situation and expectation, you may want some outboard gear to get close to what you can get in headphones. Under no circumstances should anyone feel this should have to be ridiculously complicated or expensive. A good multi effect processor and possibly a sonic maximizer, will get you amazing results for under $500 if you shop hard on eBay or the like. We can talk subtleties all you want, but if anyone of you wants to talk workable solutions and is willing to give detail on your available equipment (including PA, etc.) venues and budget, I'm sure there are several here that could point you in the right direction.

              Comment


              • #8
                I am not a person of a short marriage. I've been playing e-drums for many years. From the good old Simmons to various Roland modules and a ddrum4 now.

                The discussion about e-drums versus a-drums is a different one. Don't try to divert this post in that direction. The problem is: e-drums just aren't perfect anno the year 2001. And that's a shame. Compare it with an electric guitar or electronic keyboard. There musicians don't discuss that much about acoustic guitars versus electric guitars. Or about grand pianos versus digital ones. My 11 year old daughter plays a Roland (oups) keyboard and never spoke a word about its acoustic counterpart. Guitar player and keyboard players just are (and can be) happy with the instruments in their own group. It's a shame that many drummers can't.

                Through the years I thought I could make the next step forward. Especially when Roland came with their Vdrums I had big expectations. Natural sounds, perfect dynamics, good sensitivity, nice looking pads and full control about every part of the drum sound. Finally! But it turned out to be a disappointment.

                I hope one day manufacturers will be able to make a better electronic instrument for drummers as well. After all those years filled with tuning and recording problems we deserve that! Untill that moment I can live with my ddrums...
                Robert

                Comment


                • #9
                  Being nothing more than my typical inflammatory self, I've gotta agree with what the Dr. and Putt said, and add that drummers as a whole are usually not as technically savvy and eager to embrace new technologies as some other instrumentalists. After all, after how many thousands of years, we are still beating on pieces of wood with a stick!

                  I think your "don't cut it" statement is just too broad and wide-open. I don't like the sound of the V-Drum cymbals and prefer the look and feel of the real ones, so I use real cymbals on the V-kit. Does that mean the the V-s don't cut it? No. I, being me, prefer things a certain way, so I do it. Just like some guitar players will only play an acoustic guitar for acoustic-sounding passages. Great piezo pickup systems are available these days which do a bunch for reproducing a nice acoustic sound on a solid-body electric.

                  The problem here is one of paradigms. For what I do, I love my V-Drums. The sound is incredible, and the versatility that I have in changing sounds is unmatched in the acoustic world.

                  When I bought my V-drums, I'd just gotten a nice insurance settlement from a motorcycle accident I'd been in. My choice was to get a killer DW acoustic set for about $4K, or the V-Drums. I chose correctly. Instead of one great drum kit, I have 50 or more of them on tap at any given time. Sound check is a no-brainer nowadays, and I'll put my kick drum sound against any other club band around here using acoustic drums. Big boom, baby!

                  My V-drums are never gonna be the ONLY thing I use; by the same token, I'll never be restricted to ONLY acoustic drum sounds again, either!

                  -Danny
                  -Danny

                  Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steveo the Devo:
                    So, obviously the V's just don't cut it on their own. Certainly once the honeymoon stage is over, people want more than the v's can provide.

                    Comments? Let's hear from you oldbies still out there. (prove me wrong)
                    As I live & breathe, you are wrong.

                    I do not believe the honeymoon will ever be over for me. Much of this has to do w/the fact that I do not have the opportunitiy to spend as much time with them as I would like. Another qualifier is that these babies have so much going for them. The flexibilty involved w/this rig is almost unlimited for me. I'll probably never learn all there is to learn about these things. Not soon anyways and I'm still a long ways from retirement age. And remember, I'm talkin' outta-the-box and non-Xpanded!

                    I tinkle the ivory on the side. About a month after getting my V's I ran out and gobbled up a Roland synth to integrate. Not only did the honeymoon not end, but I then envisioned the start of a climax, who's peak is nowhere in sight. Especially so now that I've finally got a PC (Sony Digital Studio). Now I can load something called CakeWalk that some blessed soul allowed me to inherit. For a wannabe-recluse like myself, and even if I didn't have the synth or the pc, the V's have made indoor life a small corner of heaven.

                    OK SteveO? What thinketh thee?

                    -Marc.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dr. kildrum:
                      ...there is no out of the box e-drum system available today that can be used as is at the serious professional level......you may want some outboard gear to get close to what you can get in headphones
                      So they don't cut it?

                      Originally posted by Dr. Kildrum:
                      1. Apples and Oranges
                      I think you misunderstand my point with regards to this. I am not trying to compare e-drums and a-drums, nor a combination of the two. My point is that vdrums on their own with no added bits (no a-drums/cymbals, no samplers, no sequencers) don't provide enough in themselves to keep the working muso happy.

                      The good Dr
                      E-drums may eventually be able to do most or all of what A-s do, even out of the box. But that shouldn't be the goal posts.
                      GREAT POINT!! I couldn't agree more.

                      Also for those attempting to 'educate' me and maybe getting a little bit upset with me. I am only playing devils advocate here. Just thought I would throw it out there and see what decent arguments you could come up with, hence the prove me wrong remark. That being said, keep it coming - I am still unconvinced

                      Dr
                      Why not concentrate on what the e-s do better or in addition?


                      Fair enough, but lets face it. E-drums are E-drums, they are intended to provide a workable version of the a-drums. While they can certainly be used for different things other than imitating a-drums shouldn't they also be able to do that well too?

                      Originally posted by Bad Karma
                      if 3 acomplished musicians who have made therr living from playing music can agree with me that my weapon of choice is the right tool,then I think they are the right choice for me
                      Now, this is more like it!
                      However they are old (their hearing is probably gone) and you are all probably senile!
                      Hard to argue this point...I'll get back to you.

                      Orignally posted by the one and only Marc.
                      About a month after getting my V's I ran out and gobbled up a Roland synth to integrate.
                      I'm not sure if you just proved my point? You integrated a Roland synth with your v-drums? Is this because the V-drums didn't cut it on their own?

                      I do not have the opportunitiy to spend as much time with them as I would like
                      Perhaps if you did then you would agree with me!
                      Steve

                      'I only ever quote myself - except when I quote someone else' - me

                      , plenty of , and , , triggered acoustics, , and a plethora of PA blah blah freakin blah...I mean does anyone care about the specifics of pedals, speakers, processors, hardware or anything that I'm using?? :confused: Hmmm, maybe this is an appropriate place to mention that I tried out a new cymbal stand the other day...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK, I'm going to make this short and sweet. The Vdrums cut it for me live. I know alot of you guys disagree and I respect that. But for me and for what I do, they are perfect. I go straight out of the TD-10 stereo outs to 2 DI boxes splitting my signal to my monitors and then straight to the PA. Period, no additional outboard gear, although I may go with the BBE soon. Down the road I may get a mixer and use individual outs, but that's as far as I'm gonna go.

                        I think, and the three other guys I am playing with agree, that my sound is pretty damn good as it is. One of these guys is an engineer at a working studio in Atlanta. Not to say this makes him an expert, but I trust his opinion.

                        Maybe my 44 year old ears are wearing out (God knows the rest of me is) but I'm voting for the Vdrums cutting it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          An Olbie response:

                          As a V-Drumming member for almost 2 years now, and inmy mid-40's, I'd have to totally disagree with you Steveo. I am playing live with my V's, and in fact have a band practice in an hour, cutting up some new songs for an upcoming concert.

                          Just because a few individuals (4 - 10 out of 1500+ members does not make it a mass exoudus) have gone back to acoustics or other, doesn't mean that the V's don't cut it. I've had nothing but positive responses from my band and audiances. Every new song we do is an opportunity to learn even more what the V's can do. I's a never ending honeymoon for me.

                          As far as us 'oldies' not posting much anymore, well I just haven't the energy to post 'RTFM' for all the newbies. I just read the posts daily and laugh to myself. And every so often a great post comes along that helps me (i.e., tweaking the bass during sound check to the room dynamics - GREAT!!)

                          I am very excited to now be involved in another band which went head over heals with joy when they found out I play VDrums. We are exploring new musical ventures never dreamed of before. And recording on a shoe string budget is a lot more fun with the V's!

                          As far as acoustics, I've still got mine packed away, and have on occasion had the need to break them out and use them. They are just another piece of my tool inventory, with the V's being my personal choice for most gigs. For those who returned to acoustics as their instrument of choice, it's just that, a choice.

                          From my perspective, the V's cut it on their own a whole lot more than my acoustics ever did.
                          Driving a great song is better than driving a great car!!

                          http://mysite.verizon.net/landin82/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TomLandin:
                            An Olbie response:
                            As far as us 'oldies' not posting much anymore, well I just haven't the energy to post 'RTFM' for all the newbies. I just read the posts daily and laugh to myself. And every so often a great post comes along that helps me (i.e., tweaking the bass during sound check to the room dynamics - GREAT!!)

                            Glad you liked that, Tom. Have you had a chance to try it out yet? Whaddaya think? Best 20 seconds you ever spent in sound check?

                            -Danny


                            -Danny

                            Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Steveo the Devo:
                              I'm not sure if you just proved my point? You integrated a Roland synth with your v-drums? Is this because the V-drums didn't cut it on their own?
                              Not at all. They definitely hold their own.

                              Re-read the last part of my post?! You'll learn by using most xlnt search engine that I grabbed the synth because I was more interested in playing along to my music rather than to my CD's.

                              Originally posted by Steveo the Devo:
                              Perhaps if you did (spend more time w/the V's) then you would agree with me!
                              It sounds like you're trying to say that if I spend enough time with the V's, it'll either get boring or move me to add enhancements or maybe even go to other pastures. Is this what you're asking me? Well,as you said "perhaps". For the foreseeable future, I'll feel the rise. Tell ya what, when it happens, you'll be the 1st I tell - OK? Oh, and please, mark your calendar, it's 11-01-01

                              Cummin' on,
                              -Marc.

                              p.s. Hey, you wanna know how many ladies I've gone through too?

                              Comment

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