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Mesh Head Tension

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  • Mesh Head Tension

    I'm seriously thinking about buying the V-Session kit and I've gone to SA and GC to get a feel for them. One thing i didn't like about them is how "springy" the mesh heads were. Don't get me wrong, there much closer to real heads then the pads are, but a bit to bouncy for me. It seams that I may be able to crank the tension way up so they dont give as much, but I'm not so sure about the durability of these things compaired to real heads. Has anyone ever torqued these things up a bit for a a head that givs less? (wow,...I'm actually asking for less head.) I like to to hit a drum and not have my stick sink an inch into the drum. (I wonder what would happen if you put real heads on these things?) Anyway, Do most of you vdrum owners play on them with the factory set head tension, or can you comfortly crank them up?

    -FC

  • #2
    I play on a kit with three other drummers. One of them keeps the tension set to rock hard on the crank-o-meter. The others don't bother to change it. This has been going on for over 2 years so I'd say you can safely crank them. I've seen at least one post where someone said they replaced them due to too much stretching. I haven't seen that as a problem.

    I reduce tension by 1 full turn on the snare because it's too unnatural a feel for me and I have seen an occasional missed hit on the snare from too much tension. I use the factory recommend tension setting in the utility. You can set it to normal or tight.

    Personally, I got used to the mesh feel quickly and tend to appreciate it on the toms when I want to do a bad @$$ fill.
    Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

    Comment


    • #3
      I use the tighter setting and have got used to it. I tried putting them even tighter than that, and it does make them even closer to a traditional drum head, but I was too lazy and a little concerned about having to mess with settings so put 'em back to the module tuned tight setting for now. (I think my snare is actually a little tighter than the others, but not so much as to cause any mi****s or require much adjustment.)

      Another thing to consider is that I've been to several music stores that set the kits up out of the box improperly. Contrary to the manual and product warnings that clearly say the heads MUST be tightened up prior to playing, the sharp clerks that get saddled with putting the kits together often just throw the drums on the rack and connect the wires by trial and error. In these cases, the mesh pads feel like crap, and the V-cymbals (on Sessions) almost always are set up wrong and play like other cymbal triggers or worse.

      Comment


      • #4
        mi****s
        [QUOTE and the V-cymbals (on Sessions) almost always are set up wrong and play like other cymbal triggers or worse.[/QUOTE]


        Thanks for the replys guys.

        1. What is "mi****s"?

        2. How can you set the cymbals up wrong? Do they only respond to hits on a certain portion of the actual surface, or does the way they actually hang affect their response?

        3. (Diff. topic) Headphones. Do you guys usually use them for monitoring at a gig? Are headphones good enough to run the kit outputs and a mix from the PA as well? I've been jamming with headphones in my basement for years with my acoustic set and I would'nt have a problem with live if it'll save me $600 for an amp.

        4. I see that alot of vdrummers recomend the KC-500 (?) for amping. I was thinking of going for two kc-100's placed on each side of the kit for stereo. I don't see to many posts on here where drummers are concerned about stereo out, but it seems that alot of effects from the TD-10 are based around stereo. I would want to get the best sound out of these things as possible.

        5. Can anyone recomend a (cheapest) full solution. My guess: v-session (for playing), pm-3 (for monitoring), dual kc-100's (for amping), snare stand (you know), . What do you think my chances are getting the aformentioned setup for under $5500? (I'll blow a salesman if I have to.)

        6. Do you guys carry spare heads around with you? Are head splits as common with these things as acoustic sets? Or am I missing the picture; playing on vdrums don't require the ass kickin slams an acoustic does. (but it feels so good.I admit, I get carried away during a climax in a good song.)

        Answer some, answer all, ignore, flame, scratch balls. Either way, I appreciate the help!

        -FC

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by undone:

          Thanks for the replys guys.


          1. What is "mi****s"? he tried to sneak in some profanity - (mis s_hits)Ha!

          2. How can you set the cymbals up wrong? Do they only respond to hits on a certain portion of the actual surface, or does the way they actually hang affect their response?
          usually they have the unit configured for the wrong pad under the trigger settings

          3. (Diff. topic) Headphones. Do you guys usually use them for monitoring at a gig? Are headphones good enough to run the kit outputs and a mix from the PA as well? I've been jamming with headphones in my basement for years with my acoustic set and I would'nt have a problem with live if it'll save me $600 for an amp.I use hp's in addition to a monitor. The monitor can also be for the other band members. I also get a feed of the band in my mix in from the soundman. Depends on your setup and size venues.

          4. I see that alot of vdrummers recomend the KC-500 (?) for amping. I was thinking of going for two kc-100's placed on each side of the kit for stereo. I don't see to many posts on here where drummers are concerned about stereo out, but it seems that alot of effects from the TD-10 are based around stereo. I would want to get the best sound out of these things as possible. I suppose you can do this - I would shy away from the low power small speaker stuff. There are as many who dislike the KC-500 as those who like it. I use one at our Church. I wouldn't buy one but they're not horrible (IMO). My guess is much of the stereo is lost. Also, you have to be careful with panning and separation. It could sound weird with HH's on the left and the ride on the right with too much spkr separation.

          5. Can anyone recomend a (cheapest) full solution. My guess: v-session (for playing), pm-3 (for monitoring), dual kc-100's (for amping), snare stand (you know), . What do you think my chances are getting the aformentioned setup for under $5500? (I'll blow a salesman if I have to.) shop around - it's possible. I'd spend time researching the monitor and amp and try before you buy. Have seen a lot of negative posts on what you suggest.

          6. Do you guys carry spare heads around with you? Are head splits as common with these things as acoustic sets? Or am I missing the picture; playing on vdrums don't require the ass kickin slams an acoustic does. (but it feels so good.I admit, I get carried away during a climax in a good song.) We carry one at the Church. I don't have one. 2 3/4 yrs at Church with much play and 2 1/4 yrs at home, avg play - never needed one.

          Answer some, answer all, ignore, flame, scratch balls. Either way, I appreciate the help!

          -FC



          Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks again Boing.

            A few more Q's though (if you don't mind).

            I've heard a couple of samples and MP3's ov the TD-10 and to be quite honist, I'm a bit worried that the "real feel" just in'st there for most of the music I plan to be playing with.

            I have the money, and I have the itch. I started looking into this about a week ago, and so far, the only bad feeling I get is that they still sound a bit to sampled, too electronic.

            I'm a rock, blues drummer. I don't want to spend 5k on this thing if I just dont feel right on the thing an go right back to my Tama.

            Also, I'm worried that while I may adapt to the modern sounds and style of the V-session, My band members will be a bit too closed minded to accept the new sound.

            (I've been "dormant" for a few years now. I used to gig with a band for about four years. I just got together with a couple of guys to jam and possibly gig a bit.)

            Have you ever brought the ekit to a "non-secular" jam? (I'm gussing your church could be a bit more open minded (forgiving?).

            If so, how were the reactions?

            What was the reaction of your church group?

            I guess this was more than a few questions. A bit of insecureness may have poked its way out in this post.

            -FC

            Comment


            • #7
              Someone else is going to have to chime in here perhaps. I think you're gonna need a few secular e-drum testimonies to give you a warm feeling over this. There are plenty of guys who play live. I've heard Szvook's stuff, Redbricks, and a few others. They can tell you about the live experience too.

              I had a decent set of Pearls with Zildjian K's all around. Playing was a hassle due to the volume and available time I had to play them. They weren't mic'ed going through effects so, while they were my pride and joy, I was never fully satisfied with the sound. Started going to this Church with this really worn set of E's (Stinger single trigger pads, had to really whack them to trigger, ran thru a Yami TMX and an effects unit) and the sound blew me away. I started playing 1x/wk for a youth outreach and loved it. One of the drummers got a set of V-Pro's. Played them and reached nirvana that night. I got a set 6 mos later and sold my 7 yr+ Pearls for $1200.

              I can play when I want (at home) now. I got more sounds than carter has liver pills (I'm showing my yrs with that one). Playing has improved a lot. The quietness and headphone mode helps in that area.

              The Church prefers the E's (we have had A's there on occasion). The control is outstanding. Don't let the Church thing fool you. We have stuff that rocks big time. I came from a conservative Catholic background, was totally secular for 30 yrs and was shocked when I first attended. I've heard some visitors leave unhappy saying they though they were at a rock concert (when we do the praise portion of a service, we do some serious praisin' and the worship part will bring tears to your eyes). We ain't everyone's cup of tea but play for 1000+ per week over 5 services. We're doing something right.

              There are trade off's. E's aren't Utopia but neither are the A's (unless you have unlimited funds and a roadie).

              There are other options - there's the Ddrum. You probably need separate effects with them - see Puttnvr's posts. They got mesh pads now. A friend of mine plays using a set of V-pro's and real cymbals. Many of your pro's work in E's with their A's for the best of both worlds. Yea, the "toy look" has been discussed. You see some covering their shells to improve appearance. Looks shouldn't matter, but, fact is, they do. Take your time on this. Get other opinions. Definitely try before you buy.

              Some will tell you about lack of acceptance. Usually, once the public hears what E's can do, there's no acceptance problem. Your real obstacle is yourself and other musicians.
              Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

              Comment


              • #8
                undone,
                I'll add, in answer to question #2 about setting up the cymbals: a) make sure the two cords for the ride are routed to the ride and aux per the instructions, not just one and not backwards b) check that the TDW-1 is installed properly and trigger bank 2 is selected c) make sure the cymbals are mounted quite loosely.

                If you do the above, the V-cymbals will impress.

                As for price, #5, you can buy the items you list for the price you quote, but this is neither the cheapest solution nor the best. Answering this kind of question is very tricky. My advice in this area is always the same, try everything and get what you want/need.

                #6 I don't think I've ever heard of anyway actually breaking a mesh head during normal play. I've heard of one or two being stretched over time, but you shouldn't find yourself doing too many emergency repairs unless you beat the miSH1T out of them.

                On realism, the average audience member is going to think they sound better than 98% of the mic'd acoustics they've heard live. The musicians and wannabe musicians may look for flaws and/or convince themselves that the sound is just not on par with a's, but IMO, someone who knows how to manipulate the module can easily produce an extremely desirable sound. Can a real musician hear the subtle difference? Sure. But if one is better is subjective.

                For me, I am NOT looking to produce only sounds that I can produce on acoustics. I can because I have a sampler, so I could sample my whole acoustic kit and trigger it from the e's. (I have actually, and although its kind of cool in a weird way, its off my point.) Only a very few folks are gonna pass the live or Memorex test if I play something for them on tape triggering for instance, my sampled a's with my V's, or even better yet, some of the great professional samples you can get on CD, etc. I will use all of this technology because I can, but only to create my own overall sound(s).

                Getting back to my original point though, I'd be comfortable playing the V's out of the box (with some tweaking) in any environment. When recording or playing live, most of us get progressively more selective. If a true a's sound is what you want from your e's, get a sampler. It sounds to me like you haven't heard for yourself all that the V's can do yet though. I'd wait at least that long, because you might be pleasantly surprised, especially if you learn the module.

                When it comes to versatility, there is no contest. Just some thoughts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Boingo is right on, and said it beautifully.

                  Just to reinforce the "processed sound" issue:

                  Listen to the sessions thru good headphones at a music store where they are set up decently:

                  - this is exactly how they will sound if you do recording.

                  - how they sound live is completely dependent on the equipment you use to broadcast them.

                  Believe it or not, with the right setup they may well sound better than the headphones, because the low end will be so much more pronounced.

                  Personally, I started with the JBL EON G2 powered monitor, but found the low end was lacking.

                  I added the Mackie SRS-1500 powered subwoofer and man oh man! This will take your head off.

                  ( This is just one strategy - there are a lot of posts here on other amplification setups.

                  A sonic maximizer is very highly recommended by many here, as well as other outboard effects units.)

                  Make your decision on the sound of the V's after hearing them on a proper system. If you are like most of us here, I'll bet you will be astonished.

                  If you then buy, and are worried about the reaction from your mates, I would suggest they don't hear the rig unless you do have the killer sound reinforcement in hand, and perhaps have some experience with the unit.

                  ( There is a bit of a learning curve to get the unit customized to the way you play, and you to it.)

                  Once they hear the sessions in all their glory, and realize how quiet they are on stage, etc, etc - I'll bet even the guitar players (!) will be thrilled.

                  PS,

                  I believe that my setup will be all I will need to play for most venues all by itself, ie it will serve as stage monitor and front of house simultaneously. Both monitors cost me about $1400.00.

                  Good luck and have fun!
                  Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    undone: Don't worry about being insecure about using e drums. 5 grand is a lot of cash to drop on something your not sure of. The only people that I would be concerned about pleasing is yourself and your band mates. Most of your audience, unless you are playing to musicians, will not care what you are playing. Edrums are different than A's, it takes a little time to get use to them. I was skeptical at first, but once I started giging with the e,s I wished I would have done years earlier.

                    I think that unless you have a massive pa, a great a kit, a great soundman, and a talent for tuning, the edrums are the way to go. I think that your band mates will love them also. Just remember to approach the edrums with an open mind and take some time to get used to them. It will be wierd at first, but you will grow to love them.


                    Kurt
                    Kurt

                    Pearl drums converted with hart adc, roland kd7's, pd 120 for snare, various roland rubber pads, hart e cymbals and pads, td8, td6, 2 mackie srm450s and mackie sub. mackie sr 24-4 mixer........and always growing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks once again guys for your honest oppinion. The one underlying messager I hear coming through loud and clear is: I will get through my reservations an end up loving these bad boys. I don't think I'll have a problem adapting or taking this thing beyond the basics and introducing new concepts to my band members or the crowd. Thats what I go for with the A's. I'll let you guys know how the hunting a gathering went. I dont want to buy the v-ses. if I cant afford a decent sound delivery system for them. It sounds like alot of live players just wont accept anything but the best. I guess I'll have to push my max $'s up to ~$6k.

                      -FC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have been jamming in a rock band with my V-Custom for a few months. I am going to have my first live show with them soon. But at practice they sound great. (even though I'm not playing through the best amp.)
                        Out of all the people that have stopped by to hear us only ONE guy said that they didn't sound to his liking. He said that they sounded ALMOST real but something was missing. I think they sound great playing modern rock and "new" Metal like Godsmack, Blink 182, Creed and so on...

                        I did switch back to Zildjan cymbals because my wrists ache from the hi hat pad. (I still use the cymbal pads too but I have the hh pad plugged into the crash 2 port)

                        So almost a year later I LOVE my V-custom. It sounds good, can be broken down in 5 minutes, fits in my car and when i play at home the neighbors can't hear me!
                        Ostrich Hat
                        www.ostrichhat.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Undone, just to let you know, you really can't use the KC-100 for adequate V-drum monitoring. I have a KC-100 that I use for a little practice amp at home (keyboards & bass guitar) and sometimes for high-end monitoring at rehearsals. This little 60w amp just can't accurately reproduce the low-end from drums.

                          At the very least, spend $399 and get a JBL EON 15. 15-inch speaker, and almost 4 times the power of the KC-100. Not bad for low-cost quality monitoring. Many folks here will provide you with varying opinions of what the "best" monitoring solution is, but what you need to do is find what best fits your budget.

                          I've had my V-drums for about 1.5 years now, and they are by far the best investment I've made in music gear.

                          -Danny
                          -Danny

                          Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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