Yamaha DTExtreme vs. Roland V-Drums

[fredinator]

I'm still shopping for an e-kit. Has anyone played a Yamaha DTExtreme kit and a V-Session or Pro set and can give their opinion? I've played the V-Session but not the Xtreme. Looking for pros and cons. Thanks. This forum is great!

------------------

[ADD]

I own a V-custom but I recently went to a shop that had both setup.
They didn't have an amp or headphones available and since I already know how V-drums sound I played both just for the feel.
The V-session won hands down, the V-cymbals felt great and the mesh heads felt as good as they always do.
The DTExtreme felt like rubber pads even though they are baffled accoustic heads and the cymbals felt floppy and fake.
The only thing I would buy the DTExtreme for is the rack and the brain.

[Bruce]

ADD,
I second your opinion, I had the exact same impression. The Yamaha pads feel just like my old style ddrum pads with the real drum head but the reponse is all but killed buy the foam underneath the head. The Mesh heads are buy far more advanced. I saw a post regarding how you can change the Yamaha's over to mesh heads. This would make the Yamaha's much more desireable, but who wants to spend more on this when the kit should come with it in the first place. But to be fair,the sounds in the Yamaha brain are very good as well.

[fredinator]

Originally posted by ADD:
I own a V-custom but I recently went to a shop that had both setup.
They didn't have an amp or headphones available and since I already know how V-drums sound I played both just for the feel.
The V-session won hands down, the V-cymbals felt great and the mesh heads felt as good as they always do.
The DTExtreme felt like rubber pads even though they are baffled accoustic heads and the cymbals felt floppy and fake.
The only thing I would buy the DTExtreme for is the rack and the brain.

Thanks for the reply. I am still evaluating this decision to death. But with this kind of $$$$ I want to be sure. I see you are in Madison. I've been to Madison at the U of W for a number of classes. Actually coming in June for a class. Where did you play the two kits, there in Madison? If so, where?

[Mikster]

You can't compare the 2 kits on feel.
Yamaha simply can't sell the kit with mesh
heads for legal and patent reasons.
For $100 or so you can put Roland's own mesh
heads on and I'm sure you wouldn't know
the difference. Yamaha makes it easy by
giving you the replacement eggcrate type
foam piece to make the conversion. So,
don't get turned off by the feel. That's
not a real issue.
To duplicate the VSession setup piece by
piece with a DTXtreme (two 10 inch toms
and two 12 inch toms eg. the DSXT10)you
will need to add 1 extra 12 inch tom, 1
extra cymbal, and mesh heads. This will
cost about an additional $350. At Midwest
percussion their asking $2700. If you add
the extra $350,you are paying $3050 as
compared to the $4000 +++ that Roland is
looking for.
Plus, in my opinion, the DTXtreme module is
better then the Roland brain.
The drums are nicer looking,again,IMHO.
The rack --- forget it. It's not even close
as far as looks go. Me, personally, every
time I even think of buying the VSession
set I just can't get by that hideous
red rack. It's a complete joke. Of course,
IMHO.
The V cymbals are better then the Yamaha
cymbals as I see it and, as I'm sure, as
everyone else does. The bell on the rim
ride is real nice. It makes life so much
easier. It's great. The Yamaha cymbals,
however, are acceptable and the ride bell
is pretty good as well though, again, it's
not the V ride.
The main thing holding me back is the hi hat
on the DTXtreme. To me the pad and, more
importantly, the controller --- s.u.c.k. I
haven't asked the guy at Midwest yet if
the Yamaha HH60 (the older hi hat
controller) can be substituted for the
newer and somehow worse controller. How
a company can come out with a product that
takes a step back is a complete mystery to
me. What in the world are they thinking
about over there? For cripes sake they had
long enough to think about it!Those jerks
even let Roland get the upper hand with
the V cymbals. Put the V cymbals on the
DTXtreme and it's a complete no brainer
--- not even close. I hope someone of
importance over at Yamaha is reading this
because someones head over at product
development should roll. If I might add,
if you go back and check my posts
(rantings)just prior to the V cymbals were
even known of, I was imploring Yamaha to
do something about the lousy cymbal play
in order to regain market share. And
that's not even including my rantings
about E cymbals that mysteriously
disappeared from this forum before "v
cymbals"entered our thoughts. I'm still
pissed about those freakin' spies but
don't get me started on that or you'll
be seein' monkeys pissin off my head in
no time flat(you hada be there)

By the way, not for anything, but whatever happened to that 19 year old kid from Canada who claimed to be a record producer.
You know, the one who was leading the charges, holding up the Roland flag, claiming he would pay anything Roland asked for their products. Practically throw himself in front of a speeding locomotive. Man, he just disappeared off the radar screen. Ahhhhh...
His career over here at Vdrums.com was a brief one though one filled with beauty. Like a shooting star, that dude. Man, he was the bomb. The absolute bomb. I loved that kid. Yes, you guessed it----- like a brother.
Ut oh.
Hey, what the h.e.l.l.
It was gettin' awful boring over here.
Somebody had to stir up the pot.




[This message has been edited by Mikster (edited May 04, 2001).]

[mcconaghy]

I found both were comparable in sound quality and user friendliness, with Yamaha in the lead on that one.I will only partially second the opinions on feel concerning the Yamaha's, I thought the cymbal pads felt floppy, but the other pads (snare, toms, kick) felt great, and IMO a little better than the V's. May have been the real head vs. mesh head argument, but that was my impression, even after ABing them side by side.
Both modules have their ups and downs. Roland has more sound editing features, while Yamaha simply has more sounds and lets you import your own. Yamaha's sequencer actually works, but that's a mute point if you're not planning on using it.
Mikster, the DTXtreme comes with the older HH80, which, I agree, totally sucks, it doesn't track well AT ALL. I'd recommend anyone swap it for the DTXpress's (!) HH60, it's a lot smoother, and tracks better (around $80 at Long Island Drum Center).

Prices, let's see, Yamaha DTXT11 setup (4 toms, snare, kick, hihat, 2 dual-zone cymbal pads, i bell pad) rings up at around $3700 in average. Add another bell pad, 60 bucks, and maybe two single-zone cymbal pads with additional bell pads, total of just over $200, and you've paid under $4000 for a newer set with more sounds, sample import, more pads and better hardware. Even at the cheapest I've seen on this board the Roland's are at least $300 more. But you'll have to like the looks, or have Drumspan make you some custom covers for the shells.
I think right now Yamaha's DTXtreme is the better deal, and I'd be snapping for one if I didn't already have my V's. A nice combination would be, as Mikster said, the DTXtreme with the Yamaha drums and the new Roland cymbals, maybe even Hart or Visu-Lite cymbals.

Stu

[fredinator]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've gotta play the Yamaha's now before I buy anything. Honestly I like the looks of the Yamaha's just from pictures. I like the red v-drums too but think the red rack is a bit much and wonder 2-5 years from now if the red will be outdated and look hideous. That's where I like the natural look of the Yamaha's. Wish Roland had optional colors with the V-Session Set. I think I'l visit my local Yamaha dealer today and see if i can encourage him to bring in a DTExtreme. Thanks guys and anyone else that can shed some light!

As always....START YOUNG, PLAY HARD, ROCK ON!

[Mikster]

Mcconaghy,
At Midwest Percussion the DTX11 is going for
$2,999.
-that's for 4 toms (8"/10"(2)/12")
-snare drum with stand
-bass drum
-2 crash cymbals with 1 bell
-hi hat pad with controller
Do you know if the V cymbals would work with
the DTXtreme module? Actually I'm asking
a question that I guess I already know the
answer to. I'm just hoping that the answer
will magically change I suppose. The guy
at Midwest said they'd already crossed
that bridge and the V cymbals were
incompatable with the DTXtreme. Too bad.
The DTXtreme with the V cymbals would be
great.
I'm assuming for now that the guy at Midwest
wouldn't have any problem swapping the
HH80 for the HH60, which I suppose must
be less expensive. Man, I'll tell ya
though, I really hate that TP80 Hi Hat
pad. Too small. Too hard. What can be done
to bypass that?
What would be your choice for other cymbals
with "real play" if it is true that the
V cymbals don't get along with the DTX?
The set I'm working on is the DTX11 with some
additions. I want an 8 and a 10" tom to
my left with 2 10" toms in the center and
2 12" toms to my right. I also want to add
2 more cymbals and purchase mesh heads for
the drums.
If I start out with a base price of $2,999
for the DTX11 and add up all the other
listed components I should come in at close
to $3,700 and still I'll be left with 2
additional inputs should I want to hook up
the kitchen sink at a later time.
I'm just hung up on the Hi Hat issue and the
V cymbal thing, especially the ride.
Care to help me decide ?!!

[ADD]

fredinator,
I tried the V-Session and the DTExtreme in Nashville during vacation. One place in Madison that sells both Roland and Yamaha electric kits is Ward-Brodt. I hate Ward-Brodt and will never buy anything from them but they should be getting both kits soon, maybe by june or july. If I was going to buy another kit from scratch I wouldn't buy either of these kits. What I would do is buy a TD-8 ($700ish), Gibralter rack ($300ish), Visulite or V-Cymbals ($300-$600), Roland drums and or converted mesh Yamaha drums or maybe those new Zombies ($1200-$1500). The price would be under 3k and You get to choose exactly what you want and how it looks.

[captain54]

I'm building a second kit from scratch and I'm trying to do the same thing..here's what I've come up with so far..

these are the pickups on ebay...
kd-7...$120
fd-7...$110
ebay is outstanding for great buys on sometimes brand new gear...

Dm pro
Gibraltar Rack
Hart E-Cymbals II...Hats, chokable crash, ride w/bell
Accusnare...
either pintech or Jim from Baltimore's new epads...

I'm come somewhere between $1600 and $1700..
It's possible to find an alternate to the $4000 price tag Roland slaps on you..

Is it comparable in quality?? Methinks yes..

[jrcel]

With the HH80, it helps to turn the sensitivity of the pedal up. You take the back of the tower off, about half way up on the inside back, there is a small potentiometer, just like on the pads. Take a small screw driver and turn it up all the way. It improves tracking by 100%. BTW, on the HH80A, the screw is on the outside back of the unit, again, turn it up all the way. And yes, the hh60 is compatable with the DTXtreme module. Hope this helps.

[rubbanekk]

Umm, Mikster, i dont know if your talking about me.
Im 21 and live in Canada, and while im not a record producer, i am assistant engineer!!
(I am also a very poor speller)
Anyway i sure hope your not talkin about me because i didnt say those things that you claimed i did!!! So in the interest of fairness please be sure that in the future you act within accordance of goodwill!!1
There is no need to speak poorly (let alone throwing words into strangers mouths).
Cheers ta.

[Mikster]

Rubbanekk.
Dude.
Chill out will ya.
I was just jokin'.
God, I really don't want to get off topic
but here goes.....
I went back and checked all your posts.
If you are now an assistant engineer then
you've been demoted.
You list yourself, or at least you did list
yourself, as a producer.
But that's OK, I guess you can be 21 years
old and not give a hoot about equipment
that costs an arm and a leg. Like I said
before "God bless".
Your quotes, however, have always intrigued
me
In regards to the VSession kit
"Too expensive --- I don't think so"
Man, I gotta tell ya, that one kills me.
Even if you love Roland any sane person
would have to admit that their products
are very expensive.
"Roland is a company that has bills to pay"
Where do I begin on that one.
"I choose to support them with my money"
And you never, ever, question their
pricing! Rubbanekk that may be you and
that may be your attitude but even the
most die hard Roland fan on this forum
swallows hard at the Roland price tag.
On one of your posts you were giving
Puttenver a hard time chastising him for
his criticism of Roland. What, everyone
has to love Roland like you do?
Rubbanekk I don't understand you.
But when you make comments like the ones
I've listed, as you're entitled, just
understand that some people, like me, see
you as leading the charges over the hill.
If I offended you in this post or my previous posts I apologize.

[Zorro]

Hi, V sessions in Canada are in excess of $9000.00 with amp. I did not get the DTX price. Maybe a bit expensive dollar wise initially, but for a life long drum kit, an excellent value When you think of the quality, studio use and over all cost of the kit compared to buying several acoustic kits, mics, etc. to match what the V Sessions offer, 10k isn't too bad. You buy it once and own it for life. Went to the trade show and the Sessions with amp were $9600.00 Canadian plus 15% tax. The U.S. price for any E drums is always better than Canadian due to the weak Canadian $.
Getting on topic I did hear the DTX in action. Initial reaction, they sounded exceptional. I've yet to play them, but the drummer playing the kit, Randy Cook, is world class and he took the kit through it's paces very thoroughly. Has his own Regal tip endorsement. I see nothing lacking in the DTX's but cannot compare it to the V's in depth as I've no stick time on the DTX's. Did not get pricing. The DTX's were a lot better than I expected. Hoping to look into it later when the store has a kit in stock. First impressions are good.

[mcconaghy]

Originally posted by Mikster:
Mcconaghy,
At Midwest Percussion the DTX11 is going for
$2,999.
-that's for 4 toms (8"/10"(2)/12")
-snare drum with stand
-bass drum
-2 crash cymbals with 1 bell
-hi hat pad with controller
Do you know if the V cymbals would work with
the DTXtreme module? Actually I'm asking
a question that I guess I already know the
answer to. I'm just hoping that the answer
will magically change I suppose. The guy
at Midwest said they'd already crossed
that bridge and the V cymbals were
incompatable with the DTXtreme. Too bad.
The DTXtreme with the V cymbals would be
great.
I'm assuming for now that the guy at Midwest
wouldn't have any problem swapping the
HH80 for the HH60, which I suppose must
be less expensive. Man, I'll tell ya
though, I really hate that TP80 Hi Hat
pad. Too small. Too hard. What can be done
to bypass that?
What would be your choice for other cymbals
with "real play" if it is true that the
V cymbals don't get along with the DTX?
The set I'm working on is the DTX11 with some
additions. I want an 8 and a 10" tom to
my left with 2 10" toms in the center and
2 12" toms to my right. I also want to add
2 more cymbals and purchase mesh heads for
the drums.
If I start out with a base price of $2,999
for the DTX11 and add up all the other
listed components I should come in at close
to $3,700 and still I'll be left with 2
additional inputs should I want to hook up
the kitchen sink at a later time.
I'm just hung up on the Hi Hat issue and the
V cymbal thing, especially the ride.
Care to help me decide ?!!

Sure,
my guy at Sam Ash let me interchange both kits, and I tried the V-Cymbals on the DTXtreme, and they worked without problems. The V-Ride was of course only dual-zone instead of triple-zone, but you need the TD-1o and the new TDW-1 for that, as you probably already know. As far as the pads go, all pads are compatible with Yamaha's brains, the only thing you're stuck with a Yamaha item is is the Hihat pedal, since it's dual-trigger, and all other manufacturer's pedals are single-trigger.
Electronic cymbals, I'd personally like to try Visu-Lites, I like their appearance, and a lot of people here seem to be very happy with theirs. I probably wouldn't want to go with the Hart E-Cymbals, I'd want something more artificial looking, just as I'd recover the Yamaha's, or try to get a special order in for the pad finishes (I've heard they'll do the Maple/Birch Custom Absolute colours, delivery time unknown).
Sounds like quite a nice setup you've got planned there, and the Midwest price is sweet!
Jrcel, good to see you back! My largest grief was the size of the HH80, actually, I prefer a low-profile pedal like the HH60, which just felt better to be, regardless of tracking. I also thought the HH80 looked out of place, a sleek looking set, and that clunky thing to the left...

Stu