New V-Cymbals Bang For Buck

[Marc.]

In the technical forum there is an ongoing thread about the new Roland hihat v-cymbals. I post this here because I have nothing "technical" to say, but rather my "general" observation on the direction that topic is taking as well as the other thread regarding the TD-6 cymbal's bang for buck advantage over the session's v-cymbals.

Originally posted by Mulkster:
My first post on this site was for some advice to find the right HiHat sound or tweak. I didn't get much help except RTFM (read the F**king manual) from some guy.

And you probably won't from the majority of the membership here because you few dudes are the 1st ones bold enough (or perhaps rich enough) to aquire these. You are the ones we will count on to spearhead and prove out Roland's new offering. Get into your Brains and tweak 'till ya can't tweak no more. Maybe the admins here should add a new forum just for the V-Cymbals where pioneers such as yourselves can gather and brainstorm things out. Let us know that these are the greatest thing since sex or to spend our hard earned $ elsewhere because they suck. Make the call and make us proud.

-Marc.

[ufotofu]

FWIW, here is my opinion after a week of tweaking the v-cymbals on my TD-8 (I have no real experience with the CY-6 pads):

CY-14C (crash): Thumbs up
CY-15R (ride): Thumbs up
CY-12H (hi-hat): Thumbs down

Crash/ride good points: They swing. They generate less stick noise than the PD-7's. They're big and easy to hit. The rims trigger well, much better than a PD-7. They look better than a PD-7. They feel somewhat better to play than a PD-7.

Crash/ride bad points: They're heavy, and don't swing as easily as I'd like. It's a b1tch to mount them properly so they don't contact the cymbal boom. The rim trigger area is narrow. You don't have a choice in diameter like visu-lite offers (the ride is basically the same size as the crash). The bell trigger on the ride needs a very hard hit and makes a lot of noise (I use the bell/rim config instead). They are very pricey, way overpriced for what they are IMO.

Hi-hat good points: Feels somewhat better to play than a PD-7, if you avoid the rim.

Hi-hat bad points: Where do I start. Let's just say that it sucks big fat goat monkeys. See my post in the Technical forum for details, "CY-12H not sensitive enough".

*** Overall Assessment ***

Go with Visu-Lite or Hart for your e-cymbals, and spend the extra money on beer instead. The crash and ride are nice, but not worth the money IMO. Maybe if you get them secondhand... (Anyone want to buy my v-hat?)

[Jgel]

Originally posted by ufotofu:
Maybe if you get them secondhand... (Anyone want to buy my v-hat?)

Please e-mail me, I might very well do that. Thanks.
Jason

[Mick Wade]

Hey, ufotofu:

Did you happen to try using an insert cable plugged into the AUX 11/12 jack (as opposed to using a stereo cable and plugging it into the #10 ride jack) with the bow/bell configuration? If I had the CY-15R myself that's the configuration I would try to tweak (I just don't understand for the life of me Roland's logic in having a rim trigger on a ride cymbal). A while back, some kind soul (I think it was Beatnik) suggested I try this after being somewhat underwhelmed with the response of the ride when I first demoed it. If you have a chance to try that I'd sure be interested to know how it works! Thanks in advance.....

[This message has been edited by Mick Wade (edited June 12, 2001).]

[redman]

This might be a stupid question , I may have missed something ......but are the people with the new V-cymbals with the v-cymbal upgrade (TDW-2) having this problem too. If I'm not mistaken to get optimal results with the new v-cymbals you need a TD-10 with the TDW-2 yes...or....no



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~REDMAN~

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by ufotofu:
Go with Visu-Lite or Hart for your e-cymbals, and spend the extra money on beer instead.

Great idea !

[Oz DrumR]

(I might have missed this - I searched and couldn't see anyone)

Has anyone actually got the CY-6 with a TD-8?

Just wondered if we had a report / review ...

Andy

[Enjoy the Music.com]

redman,

i have the V-Session set (10/1 w/V-Cymbal). No problems with the hi-hat at all. after a bit of tweaking the Bell on the ride, now all seems to work great. Ok, so the cymbals seem to have a 90 degree angle "sweet spot" (45 degrees right/left of front-center). This "sweet spot" is no big deal provided you have good CONSISTENT technique. As for the hi-hat, no problems here at all. The top and also rim work well for me. Look, they ARE NOT real metal hi-hats so some adjustments in playing is in order. No biggie. Just an adaptation of one's technique.

Here's a tip for those with problems: Are you consistently hitting, within an inch or two diameter, the same spot on your cymbals and drums? If not, maybe some technique to acquire consistency is in order?

Ok, back to RTFM for me :-)

Enjoy the music,

Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

PS: The REAL test... can you play your set to a proficient level while blindfolded?

[ufotofu]

Originally posted by Mick Wade:
[B]Did you happen to try using an insert cable plugged into the AUX 11/12 jack (as opposed to using a stereo cable and plugging it into the #10 ride jack) with the bow/bell configuration?[B]

I will have to try that. I would prefer to use the bell too if it would trigger nicely. I am due for a trip to Radio Shack anyway...

[ufotofu]

Originally posted by Enjoy the Music.com:
Are you consistently hitting, within an inch or two diameter, the same spot on your cymbals and drums?

What I'm doing on the v-hat is tracking from bell to rim, bouncing the stick 3 times per "hit". The bell area works OK, and the bow area works OK until I move about 2" off center. Then, it starts to miss the 3rd bounce, as if it was never played. The rim is another story -- I consider it useless due to sloppy feel, ugly stick noise, and velocity required to trigger it. Basically what I'm saying is that I'm confined to a 2" radius (1" of which is the bell) on a 6" radius pad, and that's just unacceptable. Not that I can't force myself to play within a 2" radius, but why should I have to?

[suuntov]

I really liked the ride when I tried it out at Guitar Center, but it was with the expanded TD-10. Maby your module is the problem ? Then again ... now that I think about it, I have not had a ride cymbal on my E kit for almost 2 years now. :-(

Maby I'll splurge this week. :-)

[dr. kildrum]

I have been really pleased with the V's with my Session set. I've been able to tweak great hat sounds that suit me, and can set the rim of the hat to varios things including a closed hat sound (even when my foot is off the pedal for double bass work). That way I have an open or closed sound available when my feet are on the two (Axis) bass pedals. The crashes are just plain great, but the CY-6s are every bit as great for a lot less money, (I've ordered two of these for additional cymbals rather than two more CY-14s). And the ride...well...it's pretty good, gives most others a tough act to follow and the bell issue can be worked around. If you do work around it though, you are essentially resigning yourself to the fact that it's just another CY-14 (for which a cheaper CY-6 would do the trick) and that the three zone thing just isn't that effective. Personally, I can trigger the bell fairly easily, but admit I'd prefer it to be a little more sensitive. Maybe an upgrade will fix it.

Summary:
The ride may not be worth the extra money to most.

CY-6s are the best value for money I've seen in V-cymbals. They will do nicely for crashes, splashes...and even a ride.

The hat is great for me, but may not be for everyone. Try it out first.

And oh yeah, I tried this at a local shop that had a TD-10exp kit very close to a TD-8.
Unplugged the Session's (TD-10exp) V-cymbals and tried them in the TD-8 kit. Although I only spent about a half hour trying, in my opinion, no amount of "tweaking" is going to approach the difference the TDW-1 appears to make. I didn't really understand a lot of the complaints I had been hearing fully until I tried this for myself. Without the V-cymbal upgrade, they are just black rubber pads, with little significant advantage over anything else, other than aesthetics and swinging a bit, and certainly not worthy of the cost.

I would not recommend anyone considering sinking money into the hat or the ride without a TD-10exp for V-cymbal use. The CY-14s are still great but you can get the same benefits for half the price in the CY-6s.

[Stixx777]

I have no problems with the Hi-Hat or Ride. Here is a suggestion for getting the bell to trigger easier. I have not tried this since I am happy with it but I am at work and the thought came to me. Up the sensitivity on the ride until you are happy with the bell and adjust volume for the bow? Just a thought. I an not a real hard hitter but I am playing rock and when I play the bell I am using more of the meat of the stick then the tip. Just like I did with my acoustic ride, imagine that. Also my bell volume is higher than my bow I have always done this how about anyone else. You could tell your TD-10 you are playing with brushes that should up the sensitivity on the ride then just adjust everything else down. I am full of wonderful ideas today.

------------------
Ted H.
www.tocsinrocks.com

[ufotofu]

Originally posted by Stixx777:
You could tell your TD-10 you are playing with brushes that should up the sensitivity on the ride then just adjust everything else down.

Hey, I would have never thought of that. I'll try it on my cy-12 when I get home, and also for the bell trigger on the cy-15. If this doesn't work, I'm sending all my v-cymbals back and going with visu-lite (well, if they'll take them back). Man, if only I waited a bit longer...

BTW, last week I played the v-session at Mars and noticed that the cy-12 does indeed respond better with the new upgraded TD-10 than my TD-8, quite unlike the Roland literature that claims they work good with any Roland module. Looks like I got screwed...

[criewe]

It seems to me that most people who like the bell response on the new ride are the ones that never played the old cymbals (PD-9).

It's kinda a relative thing -- One might think it has a good response but someone else may think the same response is not so good. But if you compare it to the old cymbals from the original td-10 set I think all of you would agree that the new V-Cymbal bell response kinda sucks.. Maybe this needs a new thread to get opinions from those who have played both..

Chuck