It's Been Over 10 Years ...

[Marc.]

... since I played with a band!

Sunday at my Lady's annual Family Reunion (the 1st one I attended), someone leaked to the band that I played. Well after not too much prodding I gave it a go.

History: After going on a band-playing hiatus (1989) I continued to play/practice on my acoustics up to about 4 years ago. By 1999 I was ready to explode. My Ludwigs were hundreds of miles away, the E's had always been there, but I never gave them toy-lookin' things the time of day. Until the X-Mas of 99. I needed drums and they had to be quiet. I demoed 3 different E's, chose the V-Pro's and by March 2000, I was a happy camper or was I?

Sunday I got behind acoustics for the 1st time in 4 years, and behind actual human beings with instruments in over 10. The kit was not arranged to my liking (they never are, are they), I sat in for 1 number and was surprised when asked to finish the entire set. It was ecstasy! Sadly, during the 5th number my right hand/wrist cramped up and I said that's all folks. Talk about pleasure/pain factors.

I hate to say it but I am toying with the idea of unloading that monster set and refurbishing my Ludwigs. Someone, talk me out of this. I think I have delirium. It was not a dream, this I know.

Help,
-Marc.

[puttenvr]

Some questions:

What did you find in the acoustic drum kit which is not in the Vdrums?

Was the exitement of playing with human people so high that it is of no matter which drums you play? (at next the Family Reunion you should set up your Vdrums)

[szvook]

Don’t do it, you just got a jolt from the acoustics – it happens. My friend had the same desire to dump the edrums and touch up his Tama set after an absence from the acoustic sets. He did change his mind and kept the edrums. He was juiced up from the response of acoustics and at the time could not get his edrums to respond the same way – he did apply himself to the edrums more then before and now he is pleased that he did not sell them after all.

It took me one attempt point out the fact that he would have to get triggers for the Tama’s to use edrums sounds and he would have to haul a large set again and if he just went with acoustics only – there goes the availably for many different kits and sounds to choose from (amongst many other advantages of edrums).

Marc, this is temporary – you will come out of the acoustic sensation that has grabbed you and you will like you edrums again.

If not.........well I tried.


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szvook

[This message has been edited by szvook (edited May 29, 2001).]

[Boingo]

Sounds like the joy of playing live kicked in. You didn't say anything about how the drums sounded/felt or that the acoustic sound/feel was superior to the E's. Nor do you say if/how the drums were mic'ed or sound was processed.

You did say that you needed something quiet - thus, unloading the E's puts you back to where you started. I assume that several references to "toy like" means you still long for the "experience" of playing behind a full sized with real heads kit without the hard pads, dynamics limitations, etc...

Soooooo, bottom line I have no reason to sway you one way or the other. E's aint for everyone. I respect someone who has tried them both and decided which one is best for them. What is irritating is listening to those who have never had a true E experience and trash the E's anyway.

Why don't you tell us what really excited you to the point of considering ditching the E's?

[redman]

I know the feeling Marc but I bet if it wasn't for the practice time on your V's for the last 10 years they would have stopped you half way through the first song . Don't do it you'll miss them ,I know I would.


Play both kits

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~REDMAN~

[This message has been edited by redman (edited May 29, 2001).]

[szvook]

One other note – Marc have you played your edrums live recently (or at all)? If not then Boingo’s statement is on the money regarding live playing. If you are playing your edrums in your studio or home only through headphones or a small PA, then you can’t really say the edrums will not do compared to the acoustics – unless you played acoustics only in live situations and then your reasoning makes more sense. Having played an acoustic set and my edrums in one night, through a 60,000 watts system – I can tell, the edrums were tearing the venue up, more so then the acoustic set that I tried (which was mic'ed up pretty well).

Yes the feel of playing acoustic skins is different the even the mesh heads, but to me it’s not that different – you just have to adjust your technique a bit. But I have been playing edrums forever compared to acoustics, so I might be out of place on this issue.


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szvook

[This message has been edited by szvook (edited May 29, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by szvook (edited May 29, 2001).]

[Marc.]

Thnx for the responses. Some observations:


The adrenaline was defintely flowin'.

The 1st thing that struck me odd was my hand cramping up. I fear that my adaptation to the E's has weakened my grip. I fear I have lost buffness and the E's have turned me into a wimp. I have never had this happen before.

The 2nd was the sheer fact that these were acoustics and required concentrated, applied dynamics for the desired responses. It's hard to describe, but with the acoustics, I actually feel that they are an extension of my being. I connect with them. They become a part of me and I them, and I am in complete control. I have total confidence that that they will give me what I need when I caress and stroke them gently or "take" whatever I throw at them, and respond as required, and they will weather the storm unscathed.


The setup was pretty standard and they were micced and eq'd just fine. Sounded just great. Pay no attention to my "toy-like" reference. It is not relevant here. Believe me I am not that shallow. Use search for my thoughts on this. So to conclude, to me there is just a world of difference on a strictly personal level. The E's never have provided me that sense of oneness with the instrument that A's do. Is it just me?

[redman]

Originally posted by Marc.:
Is it just me?

No , but I still say keep em !

[R27789]

I have my a drums in my parents place. My e drums in my own place. Twice a week I go to my parents place during lunchbreaks to practise on the A's. I think I know what oneness with the instrument means.
(Given that the thrill has nothing to do with
"live" or "human players".)
For example signing your signature with a pen(acoustic) and trying to sign it with a keypad(electronic). You can sign using keypad with all sorts of fancy fonts, but it's not the same as the pen. But you can get creative and use keypads for a unique signature, if you're creative enough. For eg, write unique (*:-) emoticon stuff?

And I am also not selling either e or a.

Fon.

[rudi-mint]

Originally posted by feefer:


Maybe you're also remembering that drumming is about interacting with musicians and the audience, not modules and tons of pads.

Chris

I think that you hit right on the nose. Marc I too have been out of the lime light for serveral years. The first time I sat in with a band I felt the same way you did, but it had nothing to do with the drums it was all about jamming with other people. I am now playing out steady with my e-drums, and they are working great. I would not be to quick to get rid of them. Try to imagine how your set in experience would have been if you were on your v's. Just a thought. Any way I am glad you had a good experience, sounds like you need to get out with a band again.
BTW if you get rid of your v's this forum would lose your great input. v's are great live it just takes a little getting used to, more of a mind set then anything.


see ya

Kurt

[BINARY]

Originally posted by Marc.:
... since I played with a band!

Sunday at my Lady's annual Family Reunion (the 1st one I attended), someone leaked to the band that I played. Well after not too much prodding I gave it a go.

History: After going on a band-playing hiatus (1989) I continued to play/practice on my acoustics up to about 4 years ago. By 1999 I was ready to explode. My Ludwigs were hundreds of miles away, the E's had always been there, but I never gave them toy-lookin' things the time of day. Until the X-Mas of 99. I needed drums and they had to be quiet. I demoed 3 different E's, chose the V-Pro's and by March 2000, I was a happy camper or was I?

Sunday I got behind acoustics for the 1st time in 4 years, and behind actual human beings with instruments in over 10. The kit was not arranged to my liking (they never are, are they), I sat in for 1 number and was surprised when asked to finish the entire set. It was ecstasy! Sadly, during the 5th number my right hand/wrist cramped up and I said that's all folks. Talk about pleasure/pain factors.

I hate to say it but I am toying with the idea of unloading that monster set and refurbishing my Ludwigs. Someone, talk me out of this. I think I have delirium. It was not a dream, this I know.

Help,
-Marc.

[nellie94]

Don't be mean Binary - you just don't want to see Marc (with a c) go do you? he won't anyway - he'll stay - he's just having a sneaky affair behind his e's back but when she finds out...boy he's gonna get it.

[Arriguy]

Seems to me you could sell half of the Vs you've got and raise enough money to get a modest acoustic kit while keeping enough Vs to still have a decent sized set of E drums. Then when you want, you could put together a killer hybrid set. You don't want to sell off the whole set, you will regret it!

Good to see you hanging with the V boys again Nellie.

Don't scare her off this time boys!

[dr. kildrum]

Marc,

My perspective is somewhat different. I've played nothing but acoustics since I was ten. From garages to several month tours, I have lived with them and loved and hated them most of my life. From time to time, I would check in on the progress of E's, and would routinely decide that the technology still hadn't progressed to the point that allowed the level of expression that would satisfy me like A's.

I think there is still a wide gap, but at least for me, I feel that there are a few E's out there (I have finally purchased a V-Session which arrives this week) that provide what I need to voice my percussive emotions.

E's are a different animal. Both E's and A's have their advantages and their limitations and I've seen them both well represented on this site.

I's say that most casual observers and audiences aren't as discerning as serious musicians. They are often easily impressed, at least for a while. Contemporary E's provide some bells and whistles that can (to an extent) distract from lesser technique, but that only goes so far. A drummer that can hold everyone's attention, solicit various moods, feels, sounds, etc. from one acoustic kit, really isn't all that common. It is really something to take a lot of pride in.

I'm excited because I think that E's have finally evolved to the point where we can start to approximate that type of expression with them. But it will take drummers like the acoustic one described above to do it.
If someone can't do it, E's won't magically make it happen. But you sound like someone who probably can or you wouldn't know the difference or speak so passionately about it.

I've read enough to know that you have somewhat of an investment of both time and resources in E's. You are on the frontier of something that I think is very exciting. So all I'm saying is think about what you really want.

Unless their is some financial reason for giving up one or the other, I think the choice should be relatively easy. Keep and play both. Push the limits of both. E's can only provide more (and new) ways for you to manifest that creative expression that you take pride in. They are not an all or nothing deal. They are a (relatively) new instrument that you may have the chops to help define and refine. They have (relatively) few truly talented advocates.

On the lighter side, why do I know better, but insanely cannot help but quote (fully knowing the disdain I may draw and credibility I may lose): "All this machinery making modern music can still be open hearted...it's really just a question of your honesty..."

[Schmunk]

I agree with Arriguy, if you REALLY want some acoustics, then you could get rid of just a few of your V's and combine the two.

Of course, those V's you don't want will need a good home....

Schmunk

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TD-8, Pintech pads, Pearl rack, PM-3, Behringer 802 mixer and DSP1400 UltraMizer