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New V-cymbals not compatible with TDW1!

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  • New V-cymbals not compatible with TDW1!

    I went to a "Guitar Center" here in Cincinnati, OH, and the drum tech told me that in order for the cymbals to work, you have to replace your TDW1 Expansion Card. Supposedly, if you send your card in to Roland, they'll send you back the updated one. Or if you purchase it they'll reimburse you.

    Anyone else heard about this?? This true??
    -Kent D.

    p/s: they were selling the full set of cymbals for $1100. I played them and wasn't that impressed. The hi-hat still remains closed, can't open/close via foot pedal (like I was hoping!).
    Bronskrat T. Polecat
    [email protected]

  • #2
    The ONLY feature you will get from the TDW-1 w/V Cymbal control is the 3 way(bell,bow,edge) ride. Otherwise the ride functions as a 2 zone(bell,bow or bow,edge). ALL the V Cymbals work wth ALL roland drum modules.

    BTW, you don't send the card to Roland if it is already installed. You send the whole TD-10. DO NOT REMOVE THE TDW-1!!


    • #3
      Other than the "closed" Hi Hat, was there anything else that disappointed you? I for one was impressed with the new cymbals for the following reasons.

      Shape- the familiar cymbal shape makes positional sensing easier to navigate.
      I can play "up" the ride to the bell.

      Zones- I no longer have to strike the edge and center to get a full sound. This feature alone is a BIG improvement. The edge of the Hi Hat now has real purpose.

      Stick noise- they are at least 50% quieter than the 9's and 7's.

      Movement- This is my favorite feature. I can now play through the crashes. I now have realistic rebound which makes the cymbals much more expressive.

      Price- concidering the improvements and extra manufaturing cost, I think the prices are pretty fair.

      Warning: Most stores do not have the cymbals set up properly. They are way too tight and should be loosened up to respond properly.You must also set the trigger bank to the proper pads.


      • #4
        I don't quite follow you guys...can you clarify what you mean by "the hh remains closed?"

        BTW, I have played on the session kit a few times at Chuck Levin's and I definitely think the new cymbals are much improved (certainly when compared to the old PD-7 cymbal blocks). Of course, whether or not they are worth the price is up to each player individually .
        E-drums: TD-20, RT-5S triggers on snare/toms, KD-7s, VH12, CY-14Cs, CY-15R, Pintech splash.
        A-drums: Zickos (amber) w/ all Zildjians.


        • #5
          I found the cymbals to be too responsive. The place I went to had them really loose and the stick response was the same from them as with the pads. It felt like what it is: hitting a rubber pad in the shape of a cymbal.
          I agree that it's easier to hit the bell, but it didn't feel any better than a pad. I think if they put some weight into the pads they might feel better.
          Also, the connection is part of the cymbal so if you kept it loose, would it be more subject to wear and tear?

          I don't think it's THAT big an improvement to justify that price. I like the 3 zones, but it's not worth that kinda cash. It'd be cheaper to buy another PD7 or PD9. If they lowered that price, I think they'd see a lot of V-drummers selling them out.

          Stick Noise---
          Maybe you're right there. But I don't have complaints about the existing pad noise.

          If they got those hi-hats working, it'd be worth $1100. Hmm, maybe if I got a V-cymbal, stuck it on a hi-hat stand, and replaced the existing pedal with the V-hi-hat pedal???
          Bronskrat T. Polecat
          [email protected]


          • #6
            Dumb question: Are the V-Cymbals still stereo pads? (i.e., separate rim and bow sounds?)

            Also, dumb suggestion: If you aren't too hung up on having something that looks like a real cymbal, why not use a Yamaha PCY80S? Less stick noise than a PD7/9, more flex, and you could mount it on a spring to play through it more.

            It just seems to me that the new Roland cymbals are pretty overpriced for what they are. From all reports, they *still* don't feel like real cymbals. (Admittedly, I have yet to test them out myself.)


            • #7
              The cymbals have a thin sheet of metal in them so they are already weighted.

              The rubber is molded in a "v" to rest on the aluminum "reverse v" which is smooth and wear should be very minimal.

              If the cymbals were too loose then simply tighten them. They can be tightened to not move at all.

              There is a HUGE difference to hitting a stationary pad and one that sways with the same enertia as a real cymbal. Your wrist will thank you also.

              Every one will have an opinion and as always, don't take my word or anyone else's,but try them out yourself. THEN buy what you like as it is your hard earned $$.

              I happen to love the new cymbals and cn't wait to get them!


              • #8
                You CAN "whack" the new V's just like a real crash. The bow has a ping sound that builds to a crash sound and the edge has a pingless sound just like the real thing.It plays and responds as close to the real thing as any pad on the market.


                • #9
                  Info seems to be differing on who you talk to about this upgrade stuff. I was told tonight you do actually remove the card and send it to Roland. I actually got to watch a card be removed and an expanded TD-10 downgraded back to the standard TD-10, don't try this at home folks.

                  Also, for the people with aftermarket ecymbals like me. If you get the upgrade you can still use the module and your cymbals as is. It does not effect the aux input unless the new Vcymbal pad types are selected.


                  • #10
                    How will the CY-6 e cymbals work with a TD-7? Would it be worth the 99 bucks a piece to buy them or not?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BtnkBndt:
                      I actually got to watch a card be removed and an expanded TD-10 downgraded back to the standard TD-10, don't try this at home folks.

                      My understanding is if the card is removed, the TD-10 does not function and has to be reprogrammed. I also don't recall any mention of downgrades or upgrades being done by anyone other than the factory. Were you at a factory or has this changed (or was my initial understanding incorrect)?
                      Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.


                      • #12
                        I myself called Roland in California (got number off of Roland Magazine) and the tech there said that you remove the TDW-1 and send it down then they send it back with the upgrade (or send another one with the upgrade, he wasn't exactly specific on that). That's the "Official" word that I got, which of course may be different then someones elses "Official" words

                        Brian Kidd


                        • #13
                          No Boingo, you can't downgrade the module yourself. The clinician I watched upgraded a TD-10 for the clinic. After the show he then proceeded to remove the expansion. He had a chip he pulled from his briefcase that reinitialized the TD-10 back to its original state. You notice these things if you hang around and bother them afterwards . You are right, if you personally removed your expansion the module would not function.


                          • #14
                            Here is an interesting take on the whole cymbal thing. A lot of hype has been put on the "natural movement" and that these pads are not fixed like the pd7 & pd9. Now my issue with this is aren't your pd 110 & pd 120 pads fixed? Now I can understand why people what more "real" cymbals, but for the price, I'm sticking with my pd7's & 9's.


                            • #15
                              Stick with your pads if you like, but you're fooling yourself with fuzzy logic to justify a budget issue. You are comparing apples to oranges. The movement of the cymbal allows much of the energy from the strike to keep from being transferred to the drummer. With a hard, fixed pad, the drummer absorbs all of the shock from striking the surface.

                              In the case of the drum head, while the drum may be fixed, the surface of the head actually moves. The type of head material makes a difference (some heads do a better job of this than others). Kevlar heads on acoustic drums are too stiff and do not absorb or dissipate the energy from the strike. They cause the same problems the hard pads do. You will find several internet posts about wrist pain from Kevlar heads - this is not strictly a hard pad phenomenon.
                              Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.