Triggering acoustic cymbals

[BtnkBndt]

If I was to just happen to have found a way to trigger your acoustic cymbals. Lets say this triggering device would mute the cymbal without any damage whatsoever to the actual cymbal. Installation and removal would be as quick as you can remove the cymbal from the stand. Chokable crashes could possibly be an option. Would there be much interest in such a device?

[This message has been edited by BtnkBndt (edited February 25, 2001).]

[mixter]

Aloha BtnkBndt,

I would interested in this
Very interested...please let me know more.

Thanks

[puttenvr]

Very interesting. As far as I know some drummers trigger real cymbals by using a (cymbal)microphone. I have never seen triggers on it, or so

[antinucci]

:
What a great idea! I had thought of this same thing when I first got my set. If the cost is effective, I would definiatly consider this. I have some Hart E-Cymbals, and although nice looking from a few feet away, they are kinda cheap looking/feeling because of their light-weight plastic construction. Also, I just cracked my crash nearly in half. If would much rather have muffled acoustic cymbals with a trigger. What level of muffling are we talking about? I would like near silence, as I get with my Hart E-cymbals.
:

[Mikster]

I've thought about this though I don't have the basic tools, namely EDrums and an EBrain, to mess with as I remain an acoustic player. I'd be interested though to see if anyone has tried this or might consider trying it if the materials are available. If you could find a rubber tubular thingamajig, shaped like the rubber outer surface of a Roland cymbal, and somehow create a groove on the inner surface ( although hopefully the thingamajig you find at Home Depot or wherever already has a groove, for whatever reason, on it ) why couldn't you just then place your device on the outer surface of your acoustic cymbal. Certainly this should mute your cymbal fully and allow your cymbal to play like the real thing. On a crash cymbal you're basically just playing on the edge anyway. Then, why couldn't you just insert a piezo transducer on the cymbal. I don't know,
maybe place the piezo under the rubber rim or drill a tiny hole in the cymbal and simply place or fasten the piezo onto the cymbal. Everyone is always complaining about vibrations creating false triggering I would think that would be a plus with an acoustic cymbal trigger. If the piezo had to be hit directly then just slip it, or them, coupled together, under the rubber rim. I don't know how readily available FSR triggers are, but then why couldn't you just "slap an FSR transducer on the bell" for your separate bell sound and then, it would seem to me, you'd be in business. Correct me if I'm wrong, way off base, or simply rehashing an old idea that many of you have come up with before.

Butch

[drumguru]

Someone on the electronicdrums.com forum had come up with a decent way of doing this a while back. There is a picture of their kit in KitPix I believe. They took a cheap acoustic cymbal and did it, but I don't think it required permanent modification. It was essentially a triangular shaped neoprene sandwich with a trigger in the middle.

[BtnkBndt]

Putt, mics HA HA HA funny

Mixter, I don't think you would get enough muting simply by dam,peneng the edge. Cymbals are very resonant and very resistant to being muted.

Antinucci, cost effective depenmds on if you already have cymbals laying around the house, if not, no it would not be cost effective. Noise level is not to bad, it is actually quieter than my Visu-Lites. The feel is great though. Very solid.

drumguru, I looked at the kit pix and all I came up with was this. Made two custom cymbals by cutting up an old brass cymbal, hot gluing a _____ under it and supergluing a ________.....and so on (not wanting to give away any trademarked or patented info). The way I'm triggering involves no damage, no cutting, drilling, gluing at all to the cymbal itself.

I just want to see if there is any interest.

[jrcel]

K&K has devices for doing this.

[BtnkBndt]

jrcel,
Please send a link to this system, I would definitely be interested. It was not on thier site. If I can do this of the shelf I might go that route for the rest.
http://www.kksound.com/drumtrigger.html

[mixter]

Aloha BtnkBndt,

I for one would be very interested in what you have designed...please email me with more [email protected]
Thanks

[Zorro]

What is an FSR transducer? I know what a pizeo is, thanks.

[sepdrums]

Originally posted by BtnkBndt:

drumguru, I looked at the kit pix and all I came up with was this. Made two custom cymbals by cutting up an old brass cymbal, hot gluing a _____ under it and supergluing a ________.....and so on (not wanting to give away any trademarked or patented info).
[/B]

now that was good!

[Mikster]

Hey BtnkBndt
I completely beg to differ.
Cymbals are not very resistant to muting and
they're not difficult to mute at all. Just the opposite my friend. The sound from cymbals moves outward from the center bell to the rim in a wavelike fashion. Go up to one of your cymbals and push up against one edge, even lightly, with your chest. Simply touch the opposite edge with your finger. Strike the cymbal with your hand or a drumstick and that cymbal is as dead as a doorknob. If you could find a rubber thingamajig and do what I said, assuming it works, and I don't see why it wouldn't work, you'd have an E cymbal that actually plays and feels like a real cymbal. Seems like it would be a piece of cake to me. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the one thing which has prevented me from jumping into the whole EDrum thing has been the hideous state of affairs concerning the cymbals. They're absolutely terrible in my opinion though the new V cymbals look interesting to me. But if what I said works fine then who needs V cymbals. My thing should "feel" better then the V cymbal for sure.

[Mikster]

Why not do what I suggested?
Just think about it.
If you could find a rubber trim, similar to
the rubber trim on a Roland cymbal, and
fit it over an acoustic cymbal, why
wouldn't that satisfy nearly all of your
criteria.

1) It would not be destructive to the cymbal.
You wouldn't have to drill a hole in your
cymbal. I figured that wouldn't go over
too well.

2) It would not be too loud. In fact it would
be completely muted.

3) It should "feel good" to play, with good
natural sway. I mean hell, just think of
what you've been playing on assuming
you've been using Roland's "crash"
cymbals ? Think of what they feel like ?

4) Could reliable triggering be achieved?
I have no clue.
But the piezo wouldn't fall off since it
wouldn't be glued onto the cymbal.
Rather, it would be fit, hopefully
snuggly(+/- glue), under the rubber trim.

What's wrong with this idea ?

[BtnkBndt]

Feefer,

What do I have in mind? The idea is so simple its almost stupid. I really don't want to say to much until I've really played out all aspects of the idea.

Your 70 year old K would not be in any danger at all.

Can't do much about the volume level, its as loud as a stick hitting a muted Bronze plate. To quieten the stick noise I am using a very thin (1/16" thick)pie shaped rubber overlay that is simply layed over the playing area and held in place by the stands threaded rod.

The cymbal has to be clamped down damn tight. I hate that sproiiiiiing action but right now its with the darn springs (Aquarian).

The idea is simple enough for any ape to use. I really don't want to get anyones hopes up to much right yet. Its still in the project phase.

Mikster,

I think I see what you are saying. Problem as always is where would you get this rubber piece that would fit snuggly around the cymbals edge?

[This message has been edited by BtnkBndt (edited February 26, 2001).]