Do I just live in a technologically challenged state?

[Ectosan]

Hi, fellow V-Drummers. Just curious, but has anyone ever been setting up their V-Drums at a gig and overheard the comment "Yeah, but can he play the real drums too"? I liken electric drums to an electric piano. Sure, one is soley acoustic and the other uses electronics, but you still have to know how to play piano to sound good on either, right? I was just wondering if anyone else who reads this BB has ever encountered this (rather ignorant, I think) attitude from a patron of a club they were playing. It just surprises me that in this year 2001, electric drummers still have to "prove" themselves as "real" players to people who should really know better. Anyone else's stories would make me feel not quite so alone in this...I can't be the only victim of this uninformed viewpoint. Anyway, thanks for letting me rant, and keep playing electrics no matter what anyone says!! If they are right for you, then that's all that matters. Happy drumming, everyone!

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-Ectosan
"Yeah, but can you play REAL drums, too?"

[Ectosan]

LOL, I'm sure yours do, puttenvr. I think what I'm trying to say is that I sometimes still catch crap from so-called "purists" who instantly knock electronic drums simply because they ARE, well, ELECTRONIC drums. Danny Carey from TOOL was discussing in Modern Drummer how it was a shame that electrics got such a bad rap in the mid-90s, and it was all about image, not what they could or couldn't do for the music. I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly. I jumped at the chance to buy the TD-7 Total Drum System when they became available simply b/c I hadn't seen a company as good as Roland put that much into such a product for quite some time before. I just think it's too bad when a type of instrument gets slammed simply b/c of some stigma that's been attatched to it. For example, I still play a Steinberger XL-2 electric bass guitar (yes, the little graphite plank body...left-handed, no less!) b/c I still get a great tone out of it and man, does it stay in tune!! But I have also heard many guitarists/bassists slam these very fine instruments simply b/c they were too "New Wave" for them. I guess Sting, Geddy Lee, Tina Weymouth, and countless others were too "New Wave" for these same detractors. To sum up, I just think it's high time that electronic drummers be given the same amount of credit that acoustic players recieve. A good synth player is still a good keys player, even though his instrument has no hammers or strings, right? Anyway, I'm sure you see my point. For the record, though, I would like to admit that I don't get any of those remarks after playing a set..only during setup, before I've even powered up. That, if nothing else, should be a testament to how good the Rolands sound. I sure love 'em, unwashed masses be darned. Oh, and I think the V-Drums look cool. BUT, I also think the little headless basses look cool, too. To each his/her own, I suppose. Thanks for listening.

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-Ectosan
"Yeah, but can you play REAL drums, too?"

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by Ectosan:
Just curious, but has anyone ever been setting up their V-Drums at a gig and overheard the comment "Yeah, but can he play the real drums too"?

I can't imagine. The Vdrum pads almost look like real drums and with the proper sounds programmed in it ...

In general the audience doesn't care which instruments you use. Only drummers do. More important seems to be the female singer's dress so don't worry.

[Arriguy]

I haven't heard that remark from anyone, yet, but perhaps you might point out to the guy that it's actually harder to play your electronic set. Point out that on an acoustic set the china cymbal is always a china cymabal. On your V set the china cymbal becomes a splash in the next song or a conga or cowbell or friggin' carhorn if you so choose. Accuracy and control are also more important. I remember remarking to one of my band mates after getting my Vs that suddenly I feel like a musician rather than a drummer!

[Ectosan]

Good, good points, Arriguy. I totally agree.
As for puttenvr's remarks, well....
well, heck, he's right. Having a female lead singer, I can back him up on that one. Hehehe. Good sense of humor, but also thank you for seriously addressing my query. It's good to hear other edrummers sound off on the way we're percieved (especially by other drummers!). Thanks, everybody, I appreciate the feedback. Keep hittin' em!

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-Ectosan
"Yeah, but can you play REAL drums, too?"

[Marc.]

It's the state (I've been there).

Originally posted by Arriguy:
I remember remarking to one of my band mates after getting my Vs that suddenly I feel like a musician rather than a drummer!

I hope your joking Paul. At a very early age I learned to identify most of the instruments in an orchestra ( as a result of a grade school field trip to a symphonic performance). My favorite section was the percussion section because it had a vast array of wonderful devices that made so many different gentle as well as thunderous sounds. Although most of the devices required striking them with another device, there was one beautiful-sounding instrument that really stood out in this section that was played by hand. It was called a grand piano. I learned the piano, but HAD to go to the skins after the British invasion. Drummers not musicians? That's a new one. Who started that? Or have I been out of touch?

~~~~~
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[Arriguy]

Marc. Don't tell me you haven't heard that old joke that all the OTHER musicians tell.
What do you call a guy that is always hanging out with musicians?

You guessed it.

[jrcel]

A great music teacher I once had used to say, " Never argue music with a non-musicain. As soon as you hear I don't know anything about music, but I know what I like, stop talking, you will just get frustrated and pissed off." If you hear someone say I wonder if he can play real drums, just smile and don't say anything. It's an argument you will always loose because you're dealing with a chimp.

[ADD]

Even if you can't play "real" drums it goes the same for guitarists.
Most modern day distortion heavy guitarists probably couldn't make an acoutic guitar sound very good.

[Marc.]

Originally posted by Arriguy:
Marc. Don't tell me you haven't heard that old joke that all the OTHER musicians tell.
What do you call a guy that is always hanging out with musicians?

You guessed it.

To be honest, I had never heard about those "drummer" jokes until the mid-late '90's. I can see where a stigma could be attached if a drummer did not contribute more than just the drum part to the group effort (most of the time, just that is MORE than enough). SO, in that light, I can see ignorance running rampant when it comes to e-drums (good suggestion redarrow). I had always added back-up vocals and contributed to lyrics and arrangements to our originals as well as come up with unique twists to many cover songs we did. A group s/b a team, and while some are content to just do their one part, I guess I just happened to be lucky.

So, is this why "certain" drummers prefer to be referred to as percussionists? I see this on certain big-name artists' by-lines. Is it an inferiority-complex they have, and that is their way of disassociation? What is Freud's position here? Childhood trauma by Uncle Ernie? Sad.

Call me just another drummer (I ain't proud),
-

[DJourg]

South Carolina? The state that keeps re-electing Strom Thurmond decade after decade? I would say its more that just technologically challenged.

Sorry. Don't mean to bash your home, there, Ectosan, but I couldn't resist. If you'd like to make a shot at the Land of Lincoln I'd say all's fair. Anway, welcome to the site; based on this and some other posts I've seen you look like a promising member.

Playing E-drums is not the same as playing acoustics; each requires different technique. I think the differences are probably greater than an acoustic/electric piano player. Then again, I don't play the piano.

E-drums took a beating in the 80's, per your Simmons reference. I remember watching music videos of neon-haired Englishmen standing behind slabs of Simmons pads as they stick-synched along with drum machines. Neil Peart and Bill Bruford made advances, I think, though Neil remained primarily an acoustic drummer and Bruford's main outlet was Earthworks, and I don't know anyone who's listened to them.

I remember reading a review of a Yes show ('Union' tour, with the new/old Yes guys together) and the reviewer made a comment about being 'suspect' about electronic drummers (Bill in this case) -- as if you never could be sure they were faking it (Bill Bruford?) Obviously the cretin didn't know what he was talking about -- rock journalists are evolutionary throwbacks, of course -- but this may be a common misconception lingering from the 80's Flock of Seagulls days.

I also recall hearing a description of a Rod Stewart show where the Simmons-playing drummer, who would, during the middle of his solo, get up and walk away from the set as it continued to play itself...as if he never played it at all. That's a setback.

ZZ Top's drummer went electronic for a time, I guess, and there's always Rick Allen...but if he hadn't had an accident I don't think he'd be playing electronics today. You would have thought industrial music would've yielded some interesting electronic drummers, but most tended to be acoustic drummers playing along with a drum machine or more stick-synchers. Drum machines make up the bulk of electronic percussion we hear nowadays, associated with bland pop/dance music, and I think it's a guilt by association thing.

(Oddly enough, I've seen a lot of reggae bands with electronic drummers...wonder if that's still common)

But there was Omar with Madonna, and I think I hear T.S. Monk played V-drums on his last album (acoustic cymbals, though). I hear a lot of non-drummer musicians saying they dig the V-drums... this may be the product that turns it around.

P.S. All this 80's-era reminiscing reminds me of a Missing Persons video where Terry Bozzio was playing this cool custom-looking electronic kit -- anyone know if this was an actual kit or if it was just for the video?

Anway, welcome Ectosan. See you around.

DJourg


[This message has been edited by DJourg (edited February 08, 2001).]

[BtnkBndt]

Originally posted by DJourg:
P.S. All this 80's-era reminiscing reminds me of a Missing Persons video where Terry Bozzio was playing this cool custom-looking electronic kit -- anyone know if this was an actual kit or if it was just for the video?

DJourg

I just had to pull out my M.P's video . I wandered the same thing way back (this is off a 17 year old video tape). Believe it or not, I am in the process of trading for an old Simmons kit. Why, just because I want to.

PS. That is pink hair you see.

[jrcel]

Drummers not being musicians, you tell me, I studied with Freddie Gruber from 1966-1972, I've taken Harmony Theory, Advanced Harmony Theory, Orchestration. I play piano, guitar, bass and drums. I don't know, maybe I'm not a musician.

[R27789]

Originally posted by redarrow:
Try handing em the sticks and ask them to play, make sure there are plenty of people around to watch.

Well, I was in a band competition, (I was just a visiting player) someone(actually he's a singer who could play a little drums) took over the electric, coz he thought he'd sound cool, played a few songs. After that NONE of the other bands wanted to use my electric drum but used the acoustic instead. Not that the TD7 didn't sound cool, because I did get enough applause when I played, but because the other drummers realized it's not easy to play it. (Yeah I know, I am repeating some points already mentioned here.. but hopefully reinforces the points)

Fon

[BINARY]

Originally posted by jrcel:
Drummers not being musicians, you tell me, I studied with Freddie Gruber from 1966-1972, I've taken Harmony Theory, Advanced Harmony Theory, Orchestration. I play piano, guitar, bass and drums. I don't know, maybe I'm not a musician.

Jrcel, if you play all that other ****, then I'd say you're a musician. I play both Guitar and Bass also, but I'm completely awful at both, so I don't necessarily regard myself as a musician. I call myself a drummer.
I have no understanding of notes or harmonies or the like, but I do know what I like to hear and I do have a little more knowledge than most drummers I've met about music simply because almost all my friends are musicians, and I have a desire to learn it all.

As for somneone talking **** about electronics, the answer is simply this - whatever music you play, whatever genre you're in, become the best you can at it.

When some slack-jawed motherf%$#er talks trash while you're setting up your stuff, play so well that when you're done, he'll wish he never opened his mouth.

The bottom line is that electronics or not, there's a point where, if you're better than he is - I mean WAY better - then it won't matter what drumset your on. He'll just feel like an ass.

BINARY