TD-7 vs TD-8 vs D-5 Questions

[Zorro]

Have a opportunity to get a TD-7 for a resonable price. Is the module as good as TD-8 or TD pro? Using a Alesis D-5 and it works well, very satisfied with the sounds. Does the TD-7 have advantages over the D-5 other than sound samples? Does the TD-7 produce more dynamics over the D-5? A midi note conversion is approx 128 steps, so dynamically does the TD do better than a D-5? Anyone make the switch from a D5 to TD-7? All info very much appreciated. Thanks!



[This message has been edited by Zorro (edited February 09, 2001).]

[PGann]

Don't know anything about the "5", but do use both the "7" and "8". If you're planning to use mesh pads, then the "8" is the way to go. The "7" works respectably well with Roland's rubber pads if you get the settings tweaked right, but simply does not work well with mesh pads. The two main things I've noticed when trying to use this combination is 1) it's just not as sensitive for picking up all hits as with a "buzz" or press roll... not smooth and continuous, but random and jerky sounding and 2) doesn't have the dynamic range of either the "8" with mesh pads or the "7" with rubber pads.

Even with rubber pads, the "7" requires more force to trigger making very soft press rolls impossible and even louder press rolls are hard to pull off smoothly. The other complaint I have along these same lines with the "7" is lost or dropped notes... it just fails to trigger quite often. Nothing more frustrating to me as a drummer than to hit something and not have it "sound"... bummer. No such problem EVER with the "8" and mesh pads. All hits register regardless of how light you tap the drum... very natural and realistic.

[Mick Wade]

I bought my TD-8 expecting it to perform several necessary functions: act as a stand-alone e-kit; be a sound source for pre-programmed MIDI sequences; be able to trigger sounds routed to outboard effects units by way of auxiliary out jacks and to have these kits changeable on a kit-by-kit basis; and, lastly, to be able to route programmed click tracks into the TD-8 via MIDI and in turn route that signal to the monitoring method of my choice (headphone amp) via a dedicated jack(s). Well, unfortunately, the TD-8 was not the answer to all my prayers, and I've had to resort to a three-headed MIDI monster: the TD-8 provides any manually-played dry sounds, an Alesis D-4 is used for sequence-triggered and effected sounds, and a Yamaha TMX provides my click sounds. No sense having any spare gear just laying around doing nothing, I guess......

[puttenvr]

First: listen yourself.

But if you want to know what I prefer from the modules you mention: it's the TD-8. Best sounds, best sensitivity, most edit options, etc...

All modules (except ddrum) have limited dynamics due to the MIDI values. So that's no difference. Perhaps Roland even has found the best way to divide the 127 MIDI steps into reasonable dynamics.

[Mick Wade]

Dynamic control was definitely was one of the key points addressed with the introduction of the V-drums. And, to be perfectly blunt, you're not going to get it with the D-5 or TD-7. If you want an e-kit that responds and sounds like an acoustic kit, the TD-8 is indeed your ONLY choice of the three options you mentioned. With the older modules, you hit the pad hard, you get a sound. You hit the pad lightly, you get the same sound. If you're into stiff, unwavering dynamics then that's okay, but most drummers need to be able to execute press rolls, crescendos, cymbal swells, etc. Now the TD-8 may not be as high-performance as the ddrum 4 (cheers, Putt) or the TD-10 (cheers, everyone else) in this regard, but it's definitely a huge leap forward. I know I'm glad I've got one. The reason I was explaining (in my previous post on this thread) my "three-headed MIDI monster" was just to show that the older modules definitely have their uses. And, in some cases, they can do things the newer ones can't.....

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by Mick Wade:
... Now the TD-8 may not be as high-performance as the ddrum 4 (cheers, Putt) or the TD-10 (cheers, everyone else) in this regard, but it's definitely a huge leap forward.

As I said: Roland probably has found the best way of dividing the 127 steps into useful dynamics. I see no difference here between the td-10 and td-8. Perhaps the td-8 is even better as far as dynamics and sensitivity go. Only with the td-10 expanded things are on equal level again.

[R27789]

Originally posted by Mick Wade:
With the older modules, you hit the pad hard, you get a sound. You hit the pad lightly, you get the same sound. If you're into stiff, unwavering dynamics then that's okay, but most drummers need to be able to execute press rolls, crescendos, cymbal swells, etc.

I wished I had a V-drum with either TD8 or TD10. After listening to you guys talk about it so much. However, I've been using the TD7 since 1995, and it's not true that we get "stiff unwavering dynamics". I am able to get light to loud press rolls, and even cymbals soft to loud crescendos using my TD7. I had to tweak the trigger settings of course(set THRESHOLD to "1" and MASK TIME to 0ms), and with practise could control the dynamics.
Of course, by all means get the TD8/10 but I am just trying to help our friend Zorro make the right choice, should he be on a tight budget like me. You don't want to spend your kid's college fund away if you don't need to..

Fon

[cgrieves]

Just to clear that point up, even the D4 has dynamic samples on most sounds i.e. different samples for differing velocity. (I still have my D4 ready for use as a trigger expander). Without external effects though, the sounds are very dull.

I think we really are spoiled. I used to think my D4 sounded excellent. I then heard a Roland MBD-1 expansion and loved the sounds so I MIDId one up with my D4 and loved the sound. I powered up the MBD-1 last night and listened. The bass guitar sounds are great, but the most of the drums really are dull, lifeless and unrealistic. Amazing how I now take the sound of my Vs for granted (although they still blow me away).

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by R27789:
However, I've been using the TD7 since 1995, and it's not true that we get "stiff unwavering dynamics". I am able to get light to loud press rolls, ....

Press rolls... They are so close to the machine gun effect. Now I can imagine that you don't have problems with the td-7

[R27789]

I assume that you mean "can't imagine" and that was a typo.
Yes, I do have problems with the TD7, many of which have been mentioned already. I just didn't agree that we get the same sound or volume with different dynamic hits.
Could you explain "machine gun effect"? If it's what I think it is, I don't think I get that when doing press rolls. I do get the constant buzz roll effect, of course probably not as good as the V-drum or DDRUM, but sure didn't sound like a machine gun to me..?
Were you talking about the TOM sounds? Yes, perhaps those do sound more like a m.g. when doing fast rolls.

[puttenvr]

machine gun is just like a machine gun giving staccato - all notes on the same level - almost unrealistic notes


ra..ta..ta..ta..ta..ta..ta..ta.. (et cetera)

Many modules with bad dynamics, sensitivity or slow analogue > digital sound processing (in fact most modules who use internal MIDI) have this. They just can't follow the way you play. Hence the ra.. ta.. ta.. ta.. effect on a certain speed