Announcement

Collapse

Lounge Posting Guidelines

E-DRUMMING DISCUSSION ONLY! DO NOT POST PRODUCT OR TECHNICAL QUESTIONS!

Having issues? Please visit our Forum Talk section for answers to frequently asked questions.

See more
See less

Roland fined 4 million for price fixing by UK market watchdog

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    mrantarctica wrote:
    The last thing you want as a small business is to pay a lot for a big ticket item that is in a very niche market and that consumers considered overpriced. You will end up not selling it and making a loss. You also have less room to move in terms of what you can offer the consumer and so are less competitive. (snip)
    ^^^ Per my comments to Chris (above) and your comments (here), my local music retailers agree with you; the stores don't carry higher end V-Drums because the kits do not sell and sit forever. The high price makes these kits (effectively) unsaleable. As I noted to Chris, my understanding is the only benefit of having a higher end kit in store is customers play these kits and settle, due to price, on one of the lower end kits. So, the higher end kits do not sell yet promote sales of the more affordable kits, and hence it seems Roland places higher end kits in stores, temporarily and free of charge to the retailer, to help with sales.
    Last edited by TangTheHump; 07-30-20, 02:59 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Concerning price, it's also case by case, here all price are the same locally, but you can negotiate, there is store say of you find the best price we matched, smaller store often can't do it. Sweetwater lower his price of "this x product" at 1900$ when it's advertised of 2200$, another smaller store knew this, he set the price to 1750$ to still get sales, but he loosed considerably as well.

      The fight is online and locally. Price on sweetwater online do not reflect the real price when you bought them, there is often discount when you buy or negotiate online. The Roland product you can get them like 15%-20% off from advertised online when you bought them. Some weird situation as well, Guitar Center like 100 stores in USA this is a nightmare, they are in trouble financially, and sell stuff like mimic at 70% discount.
      Last edited by Chris K; 07-29-20, 01:36 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Chris K View Post
        Concerning price, it's also case by case, here all price are the same locally, but you can negotiate, there is store say of you find the best price we matched, smaller store often can't do it. Sweetwater lower his price of "this x product" at 1900$ when it's advertised of 2200$, another smaller store knew this, he set the price to 1750$ to still get sales, but he loosed considerably as well.

        The fight is online and locally. Price on sweetwater online do not reflect the real price when you bought them, there is often discount when you buy or negotiate online. The Roland product you can get them like 15%-20% off from advertised online when you bought them. Some weird situation as well, Guitar Center like 100 stores in USA this is a nightmare, they are in trouble financially, and sell stuff like mimic at 70% discount.
        The personal transaction between retailer and consumer isn't policed that much. The consumer won't report the retailer to Roland for getting a discount. Informally, most retailers will offer 15% discount on these items I have found. For most businesses, if offered the choice of losing $1000 or $500, they will take the 2nd option. This is why they will sell at reduced price. It is still better than not selling at all. All electronic items depreciate with time as well. Drums probably less so, but even still, you don't want to purchase an e-Drum set and then not sell it for 2-3 years.

        Not sure about GC and the Mimic. Wasn't that when they had a defective batch? If anyone is getting 70% discount on Mimic from GC now then I would love to hear about how they did it!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by mrantarctica View Post
          Not sure about GC and the Mimic. Wasn't that when they had a defective batch? If anyone is getting 70% discount on Mimic from GC now then I would love to hear about how they did it!
          not related, guitar center had to close 2 months about 100 stores, having hard time to survive, they cancelled new stock shipments from multiple brand, they have mixed build, but not sure if remain in stock. This faulty ssd from manufacture provider batch is mostly gone, even pearl can change ssd for free. The ssd issue at retailers will never happens again, since there is built in ssd status before it get ship. All previous owner never had single issue with SSD since 3 years.
          Last edited by Chris K; 07-29-20, 06:08 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by nycvape View Post
            To be clear, I had no way of knowing the pull up bar was inferior until after I assembled it. Walmart's actions are well documented, and sometimes destroy their suppliers. (text is from https://www.demos.org/policy-briefs/...facturing-jobs)

            "Walmart’s unrelenting push for low prices eats into the profit margins of its U.S. suppliers, often weakening companies in the process.....“The pickle maker had spent decades convincing consumers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Walmart was practically giving them away.”14 According to Fishman, Vlasic’s profit margin from pickles shrunk 25 percent or more. Nor is Vlasic alone in seeing its business cannibalized by Walmart: of the top ten companies supplying Walmart in 1994, four sought bankruptcy protection by 2006.15"
            --------
            Sustainability is essential, be it our planet or economic models. Expecting a retailer to sell a relatively low volume, expensive, specialty product for a mere few dollars over it's cost is not sustainable.
            That's an issue with big retail in general, they managed to make farmers one of the professions with the highest suicide rates in France, a traditionally agricultural country which takes pride in its cheeses, wines and other foodstuffs... The more middlemen you get, the less the producer and clients get, and when you've got really, really hungry middlemen, you end up with that kind of situation.

            Comment


            • #21
              Naughty naughty Roland. Slap wrist.

              Comment


              • #22
                Same happened to Fender for trying to price fix to a minimum value in its EU market. As a retailer in the EU market, you are allowed to sell a product bought from a distributor at whatever mark-up you want to, even if you make a loss! What happened was, a load of musical instrument companies told their EU distributor that retailers weren't allowed to sell any of their products below a certain price online. If a retailer was caught doing this they would be warned and asked to adjust their prices. If the retailer refused to adjust their prices then the manufacturer would stop selling their products to the retailer, either directly or via their EU distribution. This practice is against the EU's rules for trading within the Single Market and the EU issued fines accordingly.

                Comment


                • #23
                  These companies have army sized legal departments so I'm sure it was just a rule change that put them into hot water. Or could have been.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'm seeing a lot of great comments here both for & against price fixing...

                    One I haven't seen yet though is the effect this had on the second-hand market...

                    People could expect their gear to retain value over many years (at least until Roland released a new kit) thanks to this "price fixing".

                    Since there never was any rebate or sale possible, the only option for someone who couldn't pay full price was to look into used gear.

                    Used gear in good state would fetch prices pretty close to retail since no price-drop/rebate was ever possible by 1st-party sellers...

                    That also meant a lot of players would just upgrade whenever a new module came out, confident that their old gear could still get them good money.

                    I'm interested to see if this will end up lowering the value of resale since people who would have paid for a second-hand item might wait for a price-drop or a sale now.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X