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Al-time overrated and underrated drummers

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  • Al-time overrated and underrated drummers

    This place is getting a little too quiet, so let's rub it up a bit shall we:

    want to create a thread wherein we discuss opinions about who are the most overrated and underrated drummers of all time.
    We are all just having fun, storing opinions run, please let's all share politely, there is absolutely no reason for any arguments, which shall not happen as we all cool to the bone
    so please join in and don't hesitate and don't be afraid to express your opinions
    Maybe we all can learn something as well which is really cool
    if you want to post song your else to back up what you're saying, by all means please do

    What comes to mind first is Keith Moon, it may shock some of you, however I never liked his drumming, I think is like performances were just bizarre, I have no problem with drinking and drugs in one's heyday, and being naughty and all that stuff, as Charles Bukowski said: some people never go crazy, what truly miserable lives they must live, and I live by that sentiment quite a bit, that all being said I don't think he ever got his fundamentals down, and I think that really hurt his playing, and unlike the other thread I started where we are sharing drummers who were very busy however still It in line, this guy was just way too busy in my opinion, especially live, and his drumming overpowered at times really awesome songs

    A side note any big-time digression about The Who and some of the stuff: though they still be legends I still say that Pete Townsend is a grossly underrated orchestral master, he created entire albums that were a lineage of stories, mind blowing, I don't think he really gets the credit he deserves. I listed other people I think are right up there with Beethoven and Mozart and company, in another thread, if I recall correctly I said Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Peter Gabriel, Quincy Jones, Brian Epstein, and here though I did not do mention them previously I'm going to throw in Billy Joel and Elton John as think about it how many hit songs did both of those guys write? I think it was Elton John who said he could sit down in 15 min. and write a hit song anytime he wanted to, and I think that's true. Like or hate these two guys Billy Joel and/or Elton John one has to admit they move the masses, not millions but billions of people, and did it flawlessly and seemingly effortlessly.

    Now to a drummer I think is underrated, though I did mention him in the thread about drummers who did not too much and not too little, and posted this link, it is worth another post and another mention:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI-BMDnti4c

    I saw these tags underneath the song and I think sums it up very well:

    "Danny Seraphine's work on this song is essentially one long solo. And it's brilliant in taste, feel and musicality. I wish someone would put up an isolated drum track of this. I was always mystified that they got rid of him because he was perhaps the most influential drummer in rock. Buddy Rich even complimented him."

    "Your horns are like a set of lungs and your guitar player is better than me "
    Jimi Hendrix talking about Chicago

    As always just one humble guy's humble opinions.
    Last edited by GuruMyStick; 07-18-19, 06:09 AM.
    TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-7-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

  • #2
    Jimi Hendrix. You mentioned but never hear much about his drummer Mitch Mitchel. Yea busy again but that's what the Hendrix style required. Like Mooney, Charlie Watts, Ringo Starr, they all played to a formulae that was successful and made loads of money. You cant argue with that.

    What about Barry Barrymore Barlow, or Jon Hiseman.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCUg-JmTog
    Last edited by John.b; 07-29-19, 10:50 AM.

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    • #3
      I thought Moon was great. Too bad he overindulged quite a bit. I think his drumming was very musical and really complemented Townsend’s music. Ringo also supported the music as well.

      Mitch Mitchel was a beast. I really liked him as well.
      Equipment: TD-30KV, DW9000 hardware, ROC-N-SOC Throne, Behringer ULTRATONE K3000FX Amp, JBL EON 615 Powered Speaker, Yamaha MG06X. 1965 Ludwig Super Classic. Black diamond pearl. Zildjian K Custom Dark cymbals, DW 7000 hardware, DW 9000 kick pedal.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jimorlando View Post
        I thought Moon was great. Too bad he overindulged quite a bit. I think his drumming was very musical and really complemented Townsend’s music. Ringo also supported the music as well.

        Mitch Mitchel was a beast. I really liked him as well.
        what I love about this forum, and for the most part the world, is that people can have differing opinions and still be brothers. At least that's how I feel, and how I think things should be. For instance, as you see above I thought Keith Moon was a mediocre drummer who overplayed, and just overall I did not enjoy his drumming, and I think he was carried by the band and the incredible Pete Townsend in particular. And when I say keep Moon overplayed I mean I don't think even had fundamentals down, just sounded to me like he was on a lot of drugs that sped him up anyways naturally good at coordination and just use drugs and coordination to kind of drum in some sort of wacky way.

        Mitch Mitchell was good. Again it's okay that we different opinions. My dad used to say: if you want to know exactly what you think and believe look in the mirror all day and talk to only yourself. That's the only way you're going to get back only what you only feel and believe. I think he was a little too busy on Jimi Hendrix soundtracks, and kind of a one trick pony in a lot of ways, have a lot of triplets that he got very good at, other than that I don't the had a lot of depth or dimension.'

        this is just fun opinions, exchanging them, and everything said above is just one humble man's humble opinion
        TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-7-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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        • #5
          The drummer that I’ve grown to really like is Levon Helm RIP. Great feel and just enough to make the song great.

          I get get your thoughts on Keith Moon. I grew up listening to The Who and really loved his drums on Tommy and Who’s Next. I only saw him live once in 1975. Great concert and if he was trashed, he still was able to pull it off. Of course, I may have been under some influence myself so who knows.
          Equipment: TD-30KV, DW9000 hardware, ROC-N-SOC Throne, Behringer ULTRATONE K3000FX Amp, JBL EON 615 Powered Speaker, Yamaha MG06X. 1965 Ludwig Super Classic. Black diamond pearl. Zildjian K Custom Dark cymbals, DW 7000 hardware, DW 9000 kick pedal.

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          • #6
            I can see why Keith Moon could drop in stature especially when the excess kicked in - which the press loved and unfortunately he felt he had to live up to as well - i.e. Moon the Loon. I think if there ever was a kid with ADD or ADDHA it would be Moon.

            Like all musicians Moon benefited and suffered from the basic songwriting/material he participated in creating. When that exceptional quality was present he really excelled, and when it wasn't, well he just doesn't seem as good IMO. I have come to appreciate his drumming more these days and especially love the early pop hits. I embedded in a couple of vids that show a good arc of support and not the flailing excesses that some may dislike...



            Roger states, "It's the singer not the song, that makes the music move along..." However, I think Moon really propels this tune.

            Last edited by Hoppy; 07-18-19, 01:04 PM. Reason: typo
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            • #7
              Originally posted by jimorlando View Post
              The drummer that I’ve grown to really like is Levon Helm RIP. Great feel and just enough to make the song great.

              I get get your thoughts on Keith Moon. I grew up listening to The Who and really loved his drums on Tommy and Who’s Next. I only saw him live once in 1975. Great concert and if he was trashed, he still was able to pull it off. Of course, I may have been under some influence myself so who knows.
              Levon Helm absolutely I totally agree with you one of the most underrated drummers of all time, he drove that band called The Band, if anyone has not watched the director Martin Scorsese's film about them and their last live performance you are doing yourself a disservice go watch it right now and watch how the aforementioned master drummer played so tastefully not to much not too little in the pocket and sang magnificently at the same time
              Last edited by GuruMyStick; 07-19-19, 09:14 PM.
              TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-7-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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              • #8
                Neil peart is the most overrated drummer imo. Yes he is a great drummer i just don't think hes the best in the world as people like to claim. There are lots of better drummers than him but they play metal so no one knows their names,i'll get to some of them later. Another drummer i think is very overrated is John Bonham. I think because he dead now and was in Led Zep. people give him more credit than he deserves,still a great drummer just not the best ever drummer.

                Now onto some underrated drummers, Sean Reinert practically invented technical death metal drumming and took the band death to the next level with the album human,Gene Hoglan who also played in death as well as many other bands earned the nickname the atomic clock,John Longstreth of origin took metal drumming to speeds previously thought to be unreachable and is also an amazing technical drummer,dave lombardo who started out in slayer and has been in many other bands and every album he plays on benefits and he makes the whole band sound better and that's just a few of the underrated drummers imo.

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                • #9
                  I hope you can see a pattern here? Being a headliner in the '60s and '70s was a very different thing comparing to the past few decades. The guys that rocked the main stages in the times of long hairs were easily made into gods, many of them played on 'enhancers' and were more or less one trick ponies. Being a drummer meant being loud and weird, but apart from that loudness which drove the engineers to build better amps and PAs, they'd also earned their ratings for pushing boundaries and creating new styles.

                  Fast forward to 21st century, being a top drummer now means being highly skilled, technical, musical, sophsticated, ambidextrous and proficient in many different music styles. An average user of this forum has more computer skills than a computer engineer from '60s. Can we compare Eloy Casagrande to John Bonham? Eloy played like god when he was 14 (from latin to metal), now he is a machine but few people know him. Is he underrated? Maybe. He probably plays better than most top drummers from the ol' times but the cult of a star has shifted to Lady Gagas and DJs. Also, there are way less boundaries to push nowadays compared to the reckless '70s or sythesized '80s. Carter Beauford has more skills than Moon, Baker and Mitchell combined. Has carisma, has made some amazing tracks and new stuff. He'll never have the halo of Charlie Watts because we (the audience) don't care the same way.

                  Basically, the rating has changed. We see it with different eyes today so we easily underrate new guys compared to already overrated old ones
                  Last edited by MilosDrummer; 07-20-19, 03:18 AM. Reason: Posted before finishing...
                  °•A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•°
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MilosDrummer View Post
                    ICan we compare Eloy Casagrande to John Bonham? Eloy played like god when he was 14, now he is a machine but few people know him. Is he underrated? Maybe. He probably plays better than most top drummers from the ol' times but the cult of a star has shifted to Lady Gagas and DJs.
                    again i agree.. and about Lady Gaga.. i remember on Donati forum (where a lot of highly skilled drummers hung out) there was a guy Andreas B, who was a pretty good drummer and wanted to be a pro.. so, he moved to L.A. and talked about playing in a pop band called Lady Gaga.. on the forum everybody was kind of 'giggly' about this.. lol 'lady gaga' pop.. that's not 'progressive' or 'fusion' ..but he had to live and played in that band .. to live.. ..(and now he is rich) .. so, here is an old clip of the drummer of Lady Gaga ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IpYl1PDyuA



                    | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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                    • #11
                      So.. in order to have this discussion -at all- you have to know all drummers in all styles of music.. not just 'the drummers i know'
                      imo.. that might give a skewed view of things .. i might not know a couple of drummers who are underrated.. ..because they are..
                      | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by demonocus View Post
                        Neil peart is the most overrated drummer imo. Yes he is a great drummer i just don't think hes the best in the world as people like to claim. There are lots of better drummers than him but they play metal so no one knows their names,i'll get to some of them later. Another drummer i think is very overrated is John Bonham. I think because he dead now and was in Led Zep. people give him more credit than he deserves,still a great drummer just not the best ever drummer.

                        Now onto some underrated drummers, Sean Reinert practically invented technical death metal drumming and took the band death to the next level with the album human,Gene Hoglan who also played in death as well as many other bands earned the nickname the atomic clock,John Longstreth of origin took metal drumming to speeds previously thought to be unreachable and is also an amazing technical drummer,dave lombardo who started out in slayer and has been in many other bands and every album he plays on benefits and he makes the whole band sound better and that's just a few of the underrated drummers imo.
                        I agree with you, Neil Peart is and was overrated. Obviously has some good tools, but my major thing with him is that I just don't "feel him." That is a problem with a lot of "technical drummers." At least to me. A lot of these guys who can go blazing fast just don't have a groove to me.

                        and some people may be surprised by what you said I'm going to agree with you to some degree, then somewhat disagree: I think John Bonham was somewhat overrated. Maybe part of the problem is that he's made out to be such a drum-God that when I listen to Led Zeppelin I just don't hear the "God" thing happening. He definitely got his mind muscle memory down in triplets, counting in three, most of you probably picked up on that. He mixed his hands in his bass pedal well in triplet combinations. And but of course he had a very good base pedal particularly for those days. Most of us can play him, however most of us cannot play him. And that's one of the things that stands out about him. He did have a unique sound. that cannot be said about a lot of drums in history, so that's maybe where we disagree, Ringo, Charlie Watts, guys to the death metal drummers could tear apart, they have a sound that when they're playing you just know it's them. That's an amazing thing. Jimi Hendrix had that. Stevie Ray Vaughn had that. Robert Cray for those of you who know him has that. I think Eric Clapton has that. not drummers but whatever, music is music. oh yeah, one of the best examples, the whole band Pink Floyd, and in particular their lead guitarist David Gilmour may own the crown for the most unique sound-maker of all time, in my opinion. Indeed I think he is may be the number one underrated musician in history. never really did anything speedy, though I don't think anybody created more sound with a guitar the that guy. He is getting old, if you towards and comes around and you have not seen him do yourself a big favor and go see him before he is gone for eternity. the echoes the Rolling Stones as well. And Paul McCartney. Their aging but still touring here and there, better see them while you can. When they go that's it game over evermore.

                        Then I assume we somewhat disagree with the death metal drummers as I find them overall amazing in their technical ability, their speed, particularly there a double pedals, obviously, however I find them generally even more "mechanical" than most of the "regular" or "normal" drummers who are speed monsters such as Neil. I never heard one death metal drummer who I felt had any real soul in his heart, so if anybody knows of any by all means please send an example so I may be exposed to that.

                        TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-7-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MilosDrummer View Post
                          I hope you can see a pattern here? Being a headliner in the '60s and '70s was a very different thing comparing to the past few decades. The guys that rocked the main stages in the times of long hairs were easily made into gods, many of them played on 'enhancers' and were more or less one trick ponies. Being a drummer meant being loud and weird, but apart from that loudness which drove the engineers to build better amps and PAs, they'd also earned their ratings for pushing boundaries and creating new styles.

                          Fast forward to 21st century, being a top drummer now means being highly skilled, technical, musical, sophsticated, ambidextrous and proficient in many different music styles. An average user of this forum has more computer skills than a computer engineer from '60s. Can we compare Eloy Casagrande to John Bonham? Eloy played like god when he was 14 (from latin to metal), now he is a machine but few people know him. Is he underrated? Maybe. He probably plays better than most top drummers from the ol' times but the cult of a star has shifted to Lady Gagas and DJs. Also, there are way less boundaries to push nowadays compared to the reckless '70s or sythesized '80s. Carter Beauford has more skills than Moon, Baker and Mitchell combined. Has carisma, has made some amazing tracks and new stuff. He'll never have the halo of Charlie Watts because we (the audience) don't care the same way.

                          Basically, the rating has changed. We see it with different eyes today so we easily underrate new guys compared to already overrated old ones
                          This is an exceptional cogent lucid post with much insight knowledge and wisdom. Bravo
                          TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-7-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by demonocus View Post
                            Neil peart is the most overrated drummer imo. Yes he is a great drummer i just don't think hes the best in the world as people like to claim. There are lots of better drummers than him but they play metal so no one knows their names,i'll get to some of them later. Another drummer i think is very overrated is John Bonham. I think because he dead now and was in Led Zep. people give him more credit than he deserves,still a great drummer just not the best ever drummer.

                            Now onto some underrated drummers, Sean Reinert practically invented technical death metal drumming and took the band death to the next level with the album human,Gene Hoglan who also played in death as well as many other bands earned the nickname the atomic clock,John Longstreth of origin took metal drumming to speeds previously thought to be unreachable and is also an amazing technical drummer,dave lombardo who started out in slayer and has been in many other bands and every album he plays on benefits and he makes the whole band sound better and that's just a few of the underrated drummers imo.
                            I think I agree with the a previous comment on drummers and styles. I agree that Neil Pearl is over rated. I love some of the Rush albums and my son loves them all but the style means you can almost guess what fills he will do even if you haven’t heard the song. I think the peak of musicality was Moving pictures. I don’t think there is such think as best drummer in the world. My son played me the Dream theatre covers which were played well but just didn’t have the feel of the originals. Speed is not everything. Fastest does not mean best. Some of the metal drummers are astounding but I wouldn’t call them the best. Maybe fastest. Bonham was once under rated. I would say he is unique and had some great skills. Zeppelin would not have been Zeppelin without him. I don’t like Keith moon by the way. Ruined some very decent songs. He’s a bit like marmite. You either love it or hate it .

                            Nick Mason of Pink Floyd played exactly what was required and it sounds lovely. Those songs would have been much worse if they had flashy fills and super fast drumming.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ericdrumz View Post
                              So.. in order to have this discussion -at all- you have to know all drummers in all styles of music.. not just 'the drummers i know'
                              imo.. that might give a skewed view of things .. i might not know a couple of drummers who are underrated.. ..because they are..
                              I think I am in this boat. There is no way that I know all the drummers and upon further reflection, I am just giving my opinion and mentioning some of my favorite drummers. Since I am a product of the 60s and early 70s, that is a lot of my frame of reference.
                              Equipment: TD-30KV, DW9000 hardware, ROC-N-SOC Throne, Behringer ULTRATONE K3000FX Amp, JBL EON 615 Powered Speaker, Yamaha MG06X. 1965 Ludwig Super Classic. Black diamond pearl. Zildjian K Custom Dark cymbals, DW 7000 hardware, DW 9000 kick pedal.

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