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How good our v-drums really sound?

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  • #16
    There are several things here. Some people do not mic up acoustic kits, so they are used to the sound of the drum only. Others only mic up and use plenty of FX on the acoustic kit. There is a huge difference between an acoustic kit for a band like Journey that uses the best mics, FX and also triggers sounds and an unic'd kit. Hands down the edrums sound closer to a well process A kit from a top act than an unmic'd kit will. If you prefer the raw sound, don't use edrums.
    TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tivi View Post
      NewTricks, what mixer are you using on the left of your TD-30?
      Yes, it's a TM 16. Great mixer. We can pretty much set it and forget it.

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      • #18
        If anyone would've been judging the td30 and meyer PA system by my todays gig, they would gladly blame either of those or the professional sound guy for a very poor presentation. Knowing the back story, the sound guy was to blame but only cause of lack of experience with live e-drums! One simply cannot treat e drums or vst like acoustics. If the module had balanced direct outs with microphone impedance, plugged into mic preamps maybe it could've been similar. This way it's just a synth!

        So yes, my point again, e drums depend on the same things as acoustics (and some more) but in a very different way! Taming this beast requires good taste but also a lot of skill and experimenting. I think Alan can agree on that.
        •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
        •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
        •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MilosDrummer View Post
          If anyone would've been judging the td30 and meyer PA system by my todays gig, they would gladly blame either of those or the professional sound guy for a very poor presentation. Knowing the back story, the sound guy was to blame but only cause of lack of experience with live e-drums! One simply cannot treat e drums or vst like acoustics. If the module had balanced direct outs with microphone impedance, plugged into mic preamps maybe it could've been similar. This way it's just a synth!

          So yes, my point again, e drums depend on the same things as acoustics (and some more) but in a very different way! Taming this beast requires good taste but also a lot of skill and experimenting. I think Alan can agree on that.
          This is pretty much BS. You can go stereo out from a decent edrum kit and sound great out front. Even with one of the band members running sound. Sure, the ekit has to sound good first, but that's like saying you have to tune your akit first. Meanwhile, even a great sounding akit will sound like ass out front without good mics and sound guy. The snare, ride and HH overpower the rest of the kit, etc.

          Akits work in tow scenarios. You mic nothing in a small venue and play very lightly so you are not overpowering everything, while also being sure to lay off your snare, hats and ride. Or you have a great sound guy with great gear. Otherwise any decent ekit will sound far superior in the total mix.
          TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by BWaj View Post

            This is pretty much BS. You can go stereo out from a decent edrum kit and sound great out front. Even with one of the band members running sound. Sure, the ekit has to sound good first, but that's like saying you have to tune your akit first. Meanwhile, even a great sounding akit will sound like ass out front without good mics and sound guy. The snare, ride and HH overpower the rest of the kit, etc.

            Akits work in tow scenarios. You mic nothing in a small venue and play very lightly so you are not overpowering everything, while also being sure to lay off your snare, hats and ride. Or you have a great sound guy with great gear. Otherwise any decent ekit will sound far superior in the total mix.
            I've had so many gigs playing acoustics in places tuned for a DJ with soundguys used to DJs and sounded crap... with well tuned drumsets... No, an e-drum is not a solution to all problems wether it's a drummer that doesn't know how to 'tune' them or the tech unused to them or the PA set for a DJ.

            'E-kit has to sound good first' is the topic here. Yes it's subjective, and yes some of us get it wrong. Yes, we should talk about it cause also the opposite happens... Mid tier e-drums can also sound great if you know how to tune them and if they go through a proper chain, and if you listen through a decent system/headphones. Sounds obvious, right? Wrong, many flawed opinions come from not understanding these points, and people expect to have good sounding kits just cause they're electronic. How do you make sure they sound good in the first place?
            •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
            •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
            •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

            Comment


            • #21
              At the end of the day, 99.5 out of 100 entertained people don't know / care if the drums sound good or not. They listen to the whole sound of the band. If the rhythm and voice is in the style they like they will enjoy themselves.
              You can sometimes hear someone say "the singer missed a word or was off key" hardly ever hear " the drummer missed a paradiddle or his snare was too far back in the mix".
              Sound level / feedback is noticed and a drummer that just plays bad is another issue all together.
              Listen to any recorded band / song and see how many people can pick out the one using a e-drum. Even if they can they ain't gonna care if the music sounds good to them.
              When was the last time you ever heard someone say (other than another drummer) " Man, the band rocked last night". "If only the drums would of been a acoustic kit".
              Just my 1.05 cents.
              "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

              Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Intruder View Post
                At the end of the day, 99.5 out of 100 entertained people don't know / care if the drums sound good or not. They listen to the whole sound of the band. If the rhythm and voice is in the style they like they will enjoy themselves.
                You can sometimes hear someone say "the singer missed a word or was off key" hardly ever hear " the drummer missed a paradiddle or his snare was too far back in the mix".
                Sound level / feedback is noticed and a drummer that just plays bad is another issue all together.
                Listen to any recorded band / song and see how many people can pick out the one using a e-drum. Even if they can they ain't gonna care if the music sounds good to them.
                When was the last time you ever heard someone say (other than another drummer) " Man, the band rocked last night". "If only the drums would of been a acoustic kit".
                Just my 1.05 cents.
                You just made most of the topics here redundant :-D
                •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
                •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
                •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by MilosDrummer View Post

                  You just made most of the topics here redundant :-D
                  Just this thread, or the whole forum? LOL
                  "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                  Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Intruder View Post

                    Just this thread, or the whole forum? LOL
                    Yup, the forum is coming down with identity crisis
                    •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
                    •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
                    •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MilosDrummer View Post

                      I've had so many gigs playing acoustics in places tuned for a DJ with soundguys used to DJs and sounded crap... with well tuned drumsets... No, an e-drum is not a solution to all problems wether it's a drummer that doesn't know how to 'tune' them or the tech unused to them or the PA set for a DJ.

                      'E-kit has to sound good first' is the topic here. Yes it's subjective, and yes some of us get it wrong. Yes, we should talk about it cause also the opposite happens... Mid tier e-drums can also sound great if you know how to tune them and if they go through a proper chain, and if you listen through a decent system/headphones. Sounds obvious, right? Wrong, many flawed opinions come from not understanding these points, and people expect to have good sounding kits just cause they're electronic. How do you make sure they sound good in the first place?
                      But that's the point, an a kit also has to sound good first. Most bands playing out feature a drummer with old heads and a broken crash cymbal, lol. Many have no idea how to tune or mic a kit. Or if the kit is not mic'd, you have to know how to play within the mix. Balance how hard you hit the snare, HH and ride as to not overpower everything. Many drummers don't understand that either.

                      Absolutely you have to have a decent sounding Ekit as well. But so long as it's a reasonably decent one, even stock sounds will be acceptable for the audience. Heads won't ring out or be too dead, etc.

                      In a small venue, you can control volume but still have a sound similar to a fully mic'd and processed kit. You could never achieve that in a venue you don't mic an akit. You'll sound like a garage band because the kit is not in the PA. There is a reason studios have so much gear and live even the best sounding kits have a mic per drum, gates, comps, reverb, eq and often times triggers. It's because the natural sound of the drum is not appealing to the masses, only the purist.
                      TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hmm, I feel missunderstood to a degree... Let's say that e-drums are the opposite to the acoustics in more than just being a totally different instrument. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned them in the first place . Electronics sound inherently processed because the only way we hear them is through speakers/headphones. Acoustic are what the name suggests... Only way to make them processed is to overpower or exclude the natural raw sound of them.

                        The thing I'm trying to explore is the difference in what we expect to hear from any drumset (e or a) and what we get from our kit.

                        Originally posted by BWaj View Post
                        It's because the natural sound of the drum is not appealing to the masses, only the purist.
                        This is a very good point. The raw sound of the acoustic drumset has become unfavorable under heavy influence of electronics (previously of record production) so almost everything we hear and want to hear is coming out processed through a speaker. It's genre specific also. A matter of taste. Still, there's objectively good sound and bad sound, and what makes it so is our know-how. I guess what I'm trying to say is: learn what is good sound, refine your taste and try to get as near to it as possible instead of buying fancy gear expecting it to do the work for you. Expensive e drums can sound just as bad as the cheap ones, hence many negative opinions on them. We can skip the obvious analogies to the acoustics tho... no need to write and read same things twice, right?
                        •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
                        •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
                        •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

                        Comment

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