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  • TD-50 Expansion vs. ATV / Mimic...

    Crippling indecision here. I currently have a TD-11 A2E/Hybrid and I want to replace my L80 cymbals with some proper e-cymbals. I can't decide whether to grab the TD-50 expansion kit or pick up the ATV hats/ride and (eventually) a Mimic Pro.

    Here's what I'm thinking:

    TD-50 Pros:
    - Digital snare - this seems like a big deal to me. Proper cross stick detection, no hotspotting, positional sensing, great expressiveness... this is probably the main thing drawing me to the TD-50.
    - Digital ride - by all accounts this is a better pad overall than the ATV equivalent.
    - Versatile module - lots of capability for producing interesting sounds, not necessarily limited to traditional acoustic sounds.
    - I can go and test it for myself before buying

    TD-50 Cons:
    - Relatively poor "acoustic" sounds
    - Pads tie me in to the module
    - Large up-front cost (expansion kit plus a hi-hat of some kind - no half measures here)

    ATV/Mimic Pros:
    - 14" hi-hat - Could have this with the Roland kit but the superficial side of me doesn't want to mix and match cymbals so I'd probably end up with a VH-13 instead.
    - Not tied to module - This means I could, e.g. just buy the cymbals for now and upgrade from the TD-11 later. Not getting locked into hardware.

    ATV/Mimic Cons:
    - No digital snare - this makes me very sad. I could get the ATV snare but it would bump the overall cost considerably above the cost for the Roland route. I would probably stick with a RT-10 or something on my acoustic snare instead.
    - Higher overall cost.

    Think that mostly covers it... has anyone compared these setups and can offer any opinions? I'm not even sure what I'm expecting from this thread but... gah!
    Mapex V & Roland TD-11 Hybrid: 18/10/12/14/13S, Triggera Intrigg triggers, L80 13" HH, L80 18" Ride, CY-14C

  • #2
    I can't help you with the Roland side but I do have the ATV 14" Hi-hat, 18" Ride and 13" Snare - paired with a Mimic Pro. They work together flawlessly. There's a few users on here that have played both combinations - hopefully they will chime in.

    I disagree about the Mimic/ATV combo being more expensive. I think it's considerably cheaper - at least in the US. Here you can get the Mimic, ATV Snare and ATV Ride for around $2800.
    Last edited by molson; 06-11-18, 10:08 AM.
    Pearl MIMIC Pro, ATV aD5, ATV aDrums

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    • #3
      I went from TD 50 DP to MIMIC. Overall with loss on trade and purchasing a PD125x I am out approx. 2K for the change but do prefer the sounds of the MIMIC that much more. This was involving a trade in with music store. I was unable to sell DP privately for approx. the same value that was given for my trade.
      Last edited by Bobvan; 06-11-18, 09:56 AM.
      Noble & Cooley a kit

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      • #4
        The stock sounds on the TD50 are terrible out of the box, imo. However, when properly tweaked they sound very good. If you don't like to tweak your own sounds, the 50 will probably frustrate you and you most likely won't like how it sounds in the show room. The digital snare is amazing, feels great and plays great. Closest thing yet to an acoustics in terms of dynamics, position sensing, no machine gunning, etc. I find the Roland interface much more intuitive. In the module I had to change the heads, tweak the EQ, compression, mess with mic placement and FX, pitch and layer two snares to get what I like. Took about 1 hour after I really learned the features. Now I love it.

        The Mimic sounds much better out of the box but still requires tweaking. I don't like the touch screen and the need to navigate that way. There is a 2 second delay when you change patches. So if you change on the fly it will go silent. That's a big deal if you switch during songs like I do as we do medleys, etc. No position sensing really stinks on the snare. As much as they put into trying to mimic acoustics, no idea why they left that feature out. I assume it's something that has or will be added soon. I really missed the fader feature that allows you to mix the Roland on the module. I play a lot of festivals with minimal sound checks. So I send them a stereo out and have my sound guy tell me if I need to bring up the snare, etc. and adjust it on my module. Since the festival sound guy could care less. Can't do that easily on the Mimic.

        I've never used ATV but have DYI and different Roland pads. They all triggered great with the Mimic and trigger/xtalk set up was very easy.There is a lot to like and dislike about both, imo. Roland should have better sounds out of the box and more than single shot sample ability. Roland should also have better support/upgrades in line with Mimic. The digital pack is awesome, especially the snare. Needs better snare samples.

        Mimic should offer position sensing, have a few nobs for easier navigation, no delay when switching patches and come with more than just a few acoustic drums. They have plenty of drums in there, but so many sound the same I would not count them as truly separate sounds. Unless you simply want one or two acoustic kits, you will probably have to load a lot of samples into the Mimic. I would love to see Mimic offer a site where you can download a percussion package for example. If the goal is to not clog the module with 1,000 sounds, make them available to download. Percussion pack, dance pack, etc. I've been criticized for this but I'll say it again anyway, lol. I find the Mimic to be an acoustic kit with a volume nob without positional sensing. As important as that is to sounding and playing more like an acoustic, that's a big one.

        I like them both overall but it's important to point out the flaws. So many just rave about modules that you can be let down when it arrives. What are deal breakers to me might not matter to you. What I think is awesome may not be an important feature to you. So I tried to list it all, lol. Hope that helps!
        TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by molson
          I disagree about the Mimic/ATV combo being more expensive. I think it's considerably cheaper - at least in the US. Here you can get the Mimic, ATV Snare and ATV Ride for around $2800.
          Hmm... over here the digital upgrade pack (module/snare/ride) would set me back about 2,400 ($3,200 US), while the Mimic alone would be 2,100. I could get the two ATV cymbals for around 1k but if you add the snare to that you're very quickly into "might as well just buy the whole kit" territory... could get the cymbals and stick with the TD-11 but... would I really be getting the most out of them?

          Originally posted by BWaj
          ...
          That's all awesome info - thanks! Do you know of any good before/after tweaking comparisons for the TD50?
          Mapex V & Roland TD-11 Hybrid: 18/10/12/14/13S, Triggera Intrigg triggers, L80 13" HH, L80 18" Ride, CY-14C

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          • #6
            I had so many E-Drum kits in my life..... (It all started with a Simmons SDS V in the early 80th :-) )

            My the Kits of the last years are:
            - 2Box drumit five
            - Roland TD30 (Jobeky Pads)
            ->upgraded 2017 with TD50 Digital Pack

            But I was never happy with these Sounds from Roland!
            The TD 50 sounds not very good out of the box. I love the idea from Roland to manipiulate the sound in dependency of your playing to react more realistic but these samples are not very realistic at all.

            I made two Clips with slightly tweaked Sounds (by myself) if you are interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apUni2fTAsA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jX5nzB1Ko

            On the + side:
            The TD 50 has these wonderful digital Snare and nice 18" digital Ride. This was the biggest improvement in my opinion. The sample function is nearly useless because you can only import single shot samples and overlay them to the Rolandsounds. No multisample with round robin! The 2Box was much better in this case years before.

            At least I sold all these stuff and bought a Mimic Pro and a ATV Kit and I love this combination more than every Kit before!
            If you like good sounding Acoustic Kits (which sound real!) and don't want to use Superior Drummer or other VST Libraries then go buy this module! It's absolute worth the money!

            Good luck!

            Jobeky Pads, Roland TD50-DP (upgrade pack), Roland Cymbals, aTV aDrums, Mimic Pro, Superior Drummer 3.0,

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            • #7
              I would definitely go with the Mimic unless you need to change kits in the middle of a song without any delay. The time on my module is about 1 sec because my kits are smaller than many other people's.
              I owned the TD50 for 5 months and the Mimic now for over a year. I have videos of both on youtube. You cannot make a TD50 sound anything like a VST. It has a muddy sound in my opinion that cannot be fixed with EQ because it gets too harsh. I have spent a lot of time editing and heard countless demos of it inc;luding roland's artists. it always has the same sound character and you cannot ever change that.

              I did a video of the TD50 hi hat and the Mimic. In closed position I can hear 2 samples in tight closed and closed on the TD50. I do 16th notes on closed hi hats and the TD50 is very machine like. The Mimic hi hat is better than any other VST in performance and light years away from other modules. The Mimic hi hat has a very large sample pool and again I have a video demonstrating this.

              I was told that the Mimic does not have positional sensing now because of Roland's patent. It should when that expires.

              I prefer the response of the ATV snare to the Roland digital snare. I am currently using a drone trigger DIY 14 inch snare and BT1 for cross stick. I don't miss the digital snare at all.

              I have the ATV ride and don't see any advantage to the Roland digital ride that I previously owned.

              The Mimic has a future for almost 5 times the current library. You can import percussion and electronic sounds now to play exactly like the TD50. I have imported some from the 50 myself.

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              • #8
                I agree love playing the MIMIC. Dialing in was very simple. I am waiting for the update to play MP3's with internal player for now I think the sounds are so good I am fine just playing along with the metronome..

                Edit What Peter refers to harsher tones further explains better sound tolerance that I posted in hearing protection.
                Last edited by Bobvan; 06-12-18, 02:15 PM.
                Noble & Cooley a kit

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                • #9
                  Lots of good info here folks - thanks. For those of you using the MIMIC, what snare do you use (aside from the ATV one)? Wouldn't want to have a module like that and not have a suitably expressive snare to match and I... don't really trust my A2E skills that much.
                  Mapex V & Roland TD-11 Hybrid: 18/10/12/14/13S, Triggera Intrigg triggers, L80 13" HH, L80 18" Ride, CY-14C

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post
                    Lots of good info here folks - thanks. For those of you using the MIMIC, what snare do you use (aside from the ATV one)? Wouldn't want to have a module like that and not have a suitably expressive snare to match and I... don't really trust my A2E skills that much.
                    PD125X
                    Noble & Cooley a kit

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by unsaltedmd5 View Post
                      Lots of good info here folks - thanks. For those of you using the MIMIC, what snare do you use (aside from the ATV one)? Wouldn't want to have a module like that and not have a suitably expressive snare to match and I... don't really trust my A2E skills that much.
                      I wouldn't be scared off by A2E. I have a 14" Sonor snare with Drumtec 3Ply mesh and a UFO eBridge bracket/cone. It's VERY close in performance to my ATV snare, with the exception of a slight hotspot.
                      Pearl MIMIC Pro, ATV aD5, ATV aDrums

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Peter Warren View Post
                        I would definitely go with the Mimic unless you need to change kits in the middle of a song without any delay. The time on my module is about 1 sec because my kits are smaller than many other people's.
                        I owned the TD50 for 5 months and the Mimic now for over a year. I have videos of both on youtube. You cannot make a TD50 sound anything like a VST. It has a muddy sound in my opinion that cannot be fixed with EQ because it gets too harsh. I have spent a lot of time editing and heard countless demos of it inc;luding roland's artists. it always has the same sound character and you cannot ever change that.

                        I did a video of the TD50 hi hat and the Mimic. In closed position I can hear 2 samples in tight closed and closed on the TD50. I do 16th notes on closed hi hats and the TD50 is very machine like. The Mimic hi hat is better than any other VST in performance and light years away from other modules. The Mimic hi hat has a very large sample pool and again I have a video demonstrating this.

                        I was told that the Mimic does not have positional sensing now because of Roland's patent. It should when that expires.

                        I prefer the response of the ATV snare to the Roland digital snare. I am currently using a drone trigger DIY 14 inch snare and BT1 for cross stick. I don't miss the digital snare at all.

                        I have the ATV ride and don't see any advantage to the Roland digital ride that I previously owned.

                        The Mimic has a future for almost 5 times the current library. You can import percussion and electronic sounds now to play exactly like the TD50. I have imported some from the 50 myself.
                        Not surprisingly I disagree with you. I threw out the artists demo's after 20 minutes because of how poor I thought they were. They are the knuckleheads who help Roland get their sounds, so of course those of us with an ear like you and I don't like it, lol.

                        My kit is very clean and I'm very happy with it. It's easy to get a great sound from the Roland if you tweak to taste. The single shot samples are really only an issue on the snare. Single shot is fine for kick, most percussion and toms. But the tom and percussion sounds on board are fine so no need to sample. You say IF the mimic gets positional sensing well what IF the Roland gets beyond single shot samples?

                        I do agree if the Mimic gets positional sensing it will improve a lot. But an ATV without positional sensing over the Roland digisnare? Even if the raw sound is better, the machine gunning and lack of unique tones ruins that for me. I don't get the hype over the digital ride either, we agree there. You really seem to have an issue with Roland though. It comes out when you prefer a less responsive snare and are fine without PS on it. JMO.
                        TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BWaj View Post

                          Not surprisingly I disagree with you. I threw out the artists demo's after 20 minutes because of how poor I thought they were. They are the knuckleheads who help Roland get their sounds, so of course those of us with an ear like you and I don't like it, lol.

                          My kit is very clean and I'm very happy with it. It's easy to get a great sound from the Roland if you tweak to taste. The single shot samples are really only an issue on the snare. Single shot is fine for kick, most percussion and toms. But the tom and percussion sounds on board are fine so no need to sample. You say IF the mimic gets positional sensing well what IF the Roland gets beyond single shot samples?

                          I do agree if the Mimic gets positional sensing it will improve a lot. But an ATV without positional sensing over the Roland digisnare? Even if the raw sound is better, the machine gunning and lack of unique tones ruins that for me. I don't get the hype over the digital ride either, we agree there. You really seem to have an issue with Roland though. It comes out when you prefer a less responsive snare and are fine without PS on it. JMO.
                          I don't find the ATV snare less responsive with the Mimic other than positional sensing and I am not sure what you mean about machine gunning. The reason I mentioned it is that I really like the feel of the 3 cones. For me,the Roland digital snare has less rebound than a real snare,or kind of like using an emperor X head on an acoustic snare. The ATV is really close to the type of snare feel I have.

                          The TD50 is very limited in having no ability for future sounds. I asked Drew from Roland at a TD50 demo if they could add more snares and he said no. I highly doubt it will have multisamples.

                          I used the TD50 for a few gigs and it works fine but has faults that I couldn't live with. I had no problem making it sound much better than stock but it cannot ever sound like a VST library. I think the snares become muddy and harsh with the modeling process. It is fun having all those tools but does not sound like regular recorded drums. I do a lot of acoustic drum recording as well and it is not that difficult. The Mimic is an amazingly well recorded sample library in and great sounding room . My dream is to have a room close to that sound. I already have good mics and preamps.

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                          • #14
                            I'm currently having the TD50 and was thinking about moving to the Mimic Pro until I gave SD3 another spin and got it working this time around. I guess I didn't spend enough time on it first time around. I'm not a gigging drummer so I don't have to carry around a lot of stuff and therefore my setup works for me. The triggering of the multi zones of the digital snare & ride is great. The hihat is the toughest to set up. The SD3 route for the first time allowed me to really use some presets and have them cut through the mix really well. Even with the Vex packs didn't do this for me (this is because of the module & not because of Allan).

                            If you're a gigging drummer I would definitely go for the Mimic Pro as this seems to be the best for VST sounds out of a module & the least amount of gear to carry around. Use Vex on top of that and you have a killer combo! Just listen to the expected new Vex pack, really mind blowing. Yep, changing kits is not as instantaneously as with the TD50 but if you choose for the sounds that is what you have to endure.
                            Cheers,

                            Roland TD-50KV / SPD-SX / Superior Drummer 3

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                            • #15
                              Speaking of positional sensing - anyone know when the Roland patent runs out?
                              Pearl MIMIC Pro, ATV aD5, ATV aDrums

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