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I'd like to talk about Hi-Hats!

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  • I'd like to talk about Hi-Hats!

    I'm interested to know what everybody is using/happy with, as this is a topic that is really of interest to me. I currently am using a Roland CY5/FD8 combination and have only ever used a stationary hi-hat on edrums. I've never had a moving hi-hat on a stand, as used on an acoustic kit (never owned an acoustic kit before).

    That being said, is the moving hi-hat's only benefit that it emulates an acoustic set up? I was thinking about the ATV hi-hat, which is very expensive, and was curious what added benefit would there be, if one does not require a moving hi-hat (such as yours truly, who has no experience with a moving hi-hat). Curious if the ATV or Roland VH11,12, 13, etc. are all about "feel" since they're mounted like acoustic hi-hats, or if there is some other advantage, such as larger playing surface, better triggering, or something else?

    Thanks in advance for any input and guidance!
    ATV aD5, ATV Snare, Roland V-Drums, ATV & Roland Cymbals, Gibson Les Pauls & Marshall Amps

  • #2
    For me, getting a moving hi-hat was 70% aesthetics and 30% playability.

    I had an FD-8/CY-5 hi-hat on my TD-11 kit. It was perfectly acceptable other than the CY-5ís playing surface is small. When I made the switch to an A2E kit I also decided to get a VH-11, because next to a full size kit, the CY-5 looked silly. Iíve already switched to an aD5 module to get realistic sounds so I want a kit that looks the part (purely for my benefit because I donít gig any more).

    Then I saw how much a VH-11 cost - even used. So I got a Gedrum GH-6 controller, a VH-11 clutch, a nice (but cheap) hi-hat stand from Thomann, added one of my CY-12 crashes and now I have a moving 12Ē hi-hat.
    ATV aD5, 5-piece A2E Conversion, Roland and Yamaha cymbals, ATV hi hats, ProMark Shira Kashi sticks.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tompy View Post
      For me, getting a moving hi-hat was 70% aesthetics and 30% playability.

      I had an FD-8/CY-5 hi-hat on my TD-11 kit. It was perfectly acceptable other than the CY-5ís playing surface is small. When I made the switch to an A2E kit I also decided to get a VH-11, because next to a full size kit, the CY-5 looked silly. Iíve already switched to an aD5 module to get realistic sounds so I want a kit that looks the part (purely for my benefit because I donít gig any more).

      Then I saw how much a VH-11 cost - even used. So I got a Gedrum GH-6 controller, a VH-11 clutch, a nice (but cheap) hi-hat stand from Thomann, added one of my CY-12 crashes and now I have a moving 12Ē hi-hat.
      Thanks! Youíre in a nearly identical situation as me- I have the aD5 and currently use the CY5. I thought about putting it on a hi-hat stand and using the Goedrum GH6 to try it out. Sounds like youíve gone one step further with a CY12. Are you using the vh11 settings on the aD5?

      Perhaps the GH6 and my current CY5 on a hi hat stand might be a cost-effective ďtest driveĒ?
      ATV aD5, ATV Snare, Roland V-Drums, ATV & Roland Cymbals, Gibson Les Pauls & Marshall Amps

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      • #4
        Yes the aD5 hi-hat is set to VH-11.

        From memory, the shape of the CY-5 might prevent it being mounted on a hi-hat stand. But if Iím wrong then, yes, itís a cost-effective setup for trying a moving hi-hat.

        Another consideration though is the physical placement of a stand-mounted, small diameter hi-hat cymbal, particularly as youíre using a full size snare.
        ATV aD5, 5-piece A2E Conversion, Roland and Yamaha cymbals, ATV hi hats, ProMark Shira Kashi sticks.

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        • #5
          I wonder how that goedrum controller along with the top hat cymbal from my vh-12 would work in comparison to my less than perfect full vh-12 set.
          My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

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          • #6
            As long as you can push the plunger fully down on the Goedrum controller it doesn't matter what top hat I think. Probably the more important part to ensure it operates right is the clutch. I have a Goedrum controller in addition to a genuine VH-11 one and Roland and typical HH clutches both work fine. Goedrum suggests to put a small felt in between the clutch and controller plunger.

            I also have a set of the ATV aD-14 hats and the controller is powered via AC cable with an Optical sensor. Playability on par with VH-11/13 but I hugely dislike the bottom hat design and feel that it is completely useless aside from looks. I even took apart the controller from the bottom hat piece and it feels just like a VH-11. I am probably going to post my aD-14 hats for sale in a few days.

            I've played/owned all the VH-style hats, the ATV ones, and the Goedrum ones. I have returned full circle back to using VH-11 exclusively with my Mimic Pro and VSTs... For my playing style they work the best.
            Last edited by Trip McNealy; 04-03-18, 12:18 PM.
            Live Rig: Mimic Pro | PD-125X pads | ATV + Roland cym | DIY 13" Snare + 14" Kick | MDS-9V rack | Turbosound iQ12 + iQ15B
            Studio Rig: TD-12 w/ SD 3.0 | Pearl ePro DIY full kit | ATV + Yamaha cym | VH-11 | MDS-20 rack | ATH-M40x phones

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Trip McNealy View Post
              As long as you can push the plunger fully down on the Goedrum controller it doesn't matter what top hat I think. Probably the more important part to ensure it operates right is the clutch. I have a Goedrum controller in addition to a genuine VH-11 one and Roland and typical HH clutches both work fine. Goedrum suggests to put a small felt in between the clutch and controller plunger.

              I also have a set of the ATV aD-14 hats and the controller is powered via AC cable with an Optical sensor. Playability on par with VH-11/13 but I hugely dislike the bottom hat design and feel that it is completely useless aside from looks. I even took apart the controller from the bottom hat piece and it feels just like a VH-11. I am probably going to post my aD-14 hats for sale in a few days.

              I've played/owned all the VH-style hats, the ATV ones, and the Goedrum ones. I have returned full circle back to using VH-11 exclusively with my Mimic Pro and VSTs... For my playing style they work the best.
              I am using vh11 and I like it, fast, less noise of double hihat plate etc..

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Trip McNealy View Post
                As long as you can push the plunger fully down on the Goedrum controller it doesn't matter what top hat I think. Probably the more important part to ensure it operates right is the clutch. I have a Goedrum controller in addition to a genuine VH-11 one and Roland and typical HH clutches both work fine. Goedrum suggests to put a small felt in between the clutch and controller plunger.

                I also have a set of the ATV aD-14 hats and the controller is powered via AC cable with an Optical sensor. Playability on par with VH-11/13 but I hugely dislike the bottom hat design and feel that it is completely useless aside from looks. I even took apart the controller from the bottom hat piece and it feels just like a VH-11. I am probably going to post my aD-14 hats for sale in a few days.

                I've played/owned all the VH-style hats, the ATV ones, and the Goedrum ones. I have returned full circle back to using VH-11 exclusively with my Mimic Pro and VSTs... For my playing style they work the best.
                Wow, this is great info. I have the aD5 and was thinking that the ATV hi-hat would be right match, but it's so costly. I've heard others here complain that it's loud, as well. Since the bottom hi-hat is just for looks, then perhaps I'd be happy with a used VH11, which seem to be going for around $250. I was really interested in posting an ATV hi-hat vs. Roland hi-hat question, but I think you've answered it for me!
                ATV aD5, ATV Snare, Roland V-Drums, ATV & Roland Cymbals, Gibson Les Pauls & Marshall Amps

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Blades View Post
                  I wonder how that goedrum controller along with the top hat cymbal from my vh-12 would work in comparison to my less than perfect full vh-12 set.
                  you can take a top cymbal dual zone and use it with goe https://youtu.be/UJtu3dImXVU?t=83
                  Last edited by Chris K; 04-03-18, 10:35 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I much prefer the ATV hi hat myself. I added some weight to the bottom cymbal.

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                    • #11
                      My own experience with two cymbal electronic hi-hats is similar to what Tompy noted above: 70% aesthetics and 30% playability. In fact, I'd say the ratio is even further apart, maybe 95% aesthetics and 5% playability. Two cymbals opening and closing, even when the cymbals are made of rubber, is acoustically loud. This is a problem when acoustic sound levels must be kept to a minimum. Also, playability can be negatively impacted because the two hats opening and closing don't generate the close-to-open, open-to-close sound. Rather, it's a sensor placed between the two hats that tells the module how far open or closed the hats are. The two cymbals can interfere with the sensor, making the hi-hat less accurate and less playable. I find a single hat with sensor underneath (VH-11 style) or fixed hat with electronic floor pedal more accurate than two cymbal hats such as the VH-12 and VH-13.
                      Last edited by TangTheHump; 04-05-18, 03:58 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Peter Warren View Post
                        I much prefer the ATV hi hat myself. I added some weight to the bottom cymbal.
                        Hey Peter, Can you post a picture of how you applied weight to the ATV? What function does it serve?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Six View Post

                          Hey Peter, Can you post a picture of how you applied weight to the ATV? What function does it serve?
                          I just put a rubber drum mute inside the bottom. It adds weight and might make it slightly quieter.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post
                            My own experience with two cymbal electronic hi-hats is similar to what Tompy noted above: 70% aesthetics and 30% playability. In fact, I'd say the ratio is even further apart, maybe 95% aesthetics and 5% playability. Two cymbals opening and closing, even when the cymbals are made of rubber, is acoustically loud. This is a problem when acoustic sound levels must be kept to a minimum. Also, playability can be negatively impacted because the two hats opening and closing is typically an illusion. The opening and closing of the hats isn't generating the sound. Rather, it's the sensor placed between the two hats that tells the module how far open or closed the hats are. The two cymbals can interfere with the sensor, making the hi-hat less accurate and less playable. I find a single hat with sensor underneath (VH-11 style) or fixed hat with electronic floor pedal more accurate than two cymbal hats such as the VH-12 and VH-13.
                            Excellent- So, I'm using a stationary hi-hat (CY5) and I think it's fine. Then again, I don't know if I should be ashamed on a drum forum admitting that I like my CY5! I have the option to get a VH11 for about $250 (seems to be the going price) and could buy an average hi-hat stand good enough for my purposes for about $100 or less. Curious if I'll get any additional satisfaction with this set up over my stationary CY5 or I should just save my cash? I've got some good data on this thread that says maybe or maybe not!
                            ATV aD5, ATV Snare, Roland V-Drums, ATV & Roland Cymbals, Gibson Les Pauls & Marshall Amps

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              skhan007,

                              I don't see anything wrong with the stationary CY-5 for hi-hat. If you want to find fault, I suppose it's that the playing surface is small. The CY-5 is 12 inches in diameter so in theory it's just as big as the VH-11, VH-12, and VH13, all which offer 12 inch playing surfaces. However, only the front part of the CY-5 is rubber coated and playable, which cuts down on the playable area considerably. In many ways, a stationary hat along with a foot controller pedal makes a lot of sense and provides equal or better performance than more expensive / more fancy e-hihat solutions. If the CY-5 is working for you, there is no need to change it.

                              Side note. The rubber actuator inside Roland's FD-8 hi-hat controller pedal can wear out, limiting close-to-open and open-to-close performance. That's probably the key thing to keep an eye on. As long as your foot controller pedal is working properly, I'd say you're good to go!

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