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Snobbery towards electronic drums

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  • #61
    Originally posted by demonocus View Post
    7:30 in says it all
    I believe he's correct on that point. He's not saying that edrums are bad, just that some drummers will not perform the same on an a-kit, if practicing solely on an e-kit. From personal experience that can be true. For the last 6 years, I've been playing only on e-kits with mesh heads and even though I've lowered the tension a lot on my tams, they're just way more bouncy than most acoustic tams. My performance was less than stellar, when I sat down with an acoustic kit last week for the first time in 10 years. I was, however, better than I'd expected
    Last edited by qcaze; 02-03-19, 03:12 AM.
    Pearl Mimic Pro, Roland TD-50/TD-30/SPD-SX - PD-140DS, BT-1, PD-85, 3xPD-105, 3xPD-125, KD-120, KD-7. Cymbals: CY-18DR, 2x CY-14C, 2x CY-15R, 2xCY-12C, CY-13R, 2xCY-5, 2x Yamaha PCY10, 2xTriggera D14

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    • #62
      Don't let the contrarians dissuade you They are stuck in the past. You will never completely please them anyway. Those kind of people will always find something wrong with what you are doing and they hate change. It threatens them.

      I apologize in advance for the long winded soliloquy to anyone with the patience to read this but the subject matter is one of intense interest and emotion for me. It gets to the heart of creativity and why as drummers we do this. It gets to my own fears about whether I will be taken seriously anymore if I go down this path.

      I have 4 awesome acoustic kits. A beautiful double bass Gretsch kit with "power size" Jasper shells from the early 80's - 22", 22", 8", 10" 12" 13" 15" 16". An ultra cool small Ludwig kit I pieced together - 20", 12", 14". A kickass big Stainless Steel Ludwig Pro Beat kit made by Ronn Dunnett, 24", 13", 16", 18". An outrageous Classic Maple Ludwig kit with unnecessarily large drums (just for fun) - 28", 14", 18". And a standard size DW Collectors kit that was my main performance kit for years - 22", 12", 13", 16". I have five snares in various sizes and materials and an assortment of great cymbals.

      I recently lost my lockout and the choice was either find another lockout (near me) for $600-700 a month or live with minimizing my practise to a rehearsal space once or twice a week between gigs. I got R-tom Black Holes and a set of Zildjian L-80's. The feel of the drums and cymbals was good but I still had neighbors knocking on the door and the sound was so drastically compromised I was losing interest in drums in general. I decided to get back into e-drums since I had been watching all the advancements after a very long hiatus. I researched as best I could and made the best decision I could have at the time. I decided to go for it and not cut any corners. If I had to do it over again I might have bought an ATV or drum-tec kit with a Mimic module but as fate would have it I came across a brand new in the box TD-50 Roland Digital Upgrade a few months ago for only $2,700 and thought I should probably not pass up the deal. Since then I have been buying all the pieces to put it together. Going down some DIY roads that were dead ends. because they were more complex and more of a headache than they were worth. In the end I've unfortunately spent more than I would have if I had just sucked it up and bought a complete kit but it's been a learning process. The best laid plans of mice and men. Last night I bought a DW Performance Series bass drum with Chrome Shadow finish and when it gets in I will put on the KD-A22 conversion kit I bought last month. One at a time I've managed to find deals on four PD-128 pads and VH-13 hi-hats over the last few months. Two days ago I made another big decision. Piece together a hardware setup and cable snake or suck it up and go with one of the racks made for those drums. They are almost impossible to find. I guess Roland just doesn't manufacturing them for sale without a full kit anymore. Buying a Gibraltar or drum-tec rack brings me back to the same DIY headache. I found a ridiculously expensive Randall May EMAATS Rack but last night I once more felt compelled to stop trying to do it on my own and buy the gear that was made to work together. I again sucked it up and bought it. BTW I'm not rich. This is a lot of money for me but it's still less than I would spend in a year on a lockout. I'm currently shopping for two more cymbals.

      I say all this to say that I want something different. I knew I wanted a better feel through realistic sizes and a better level of quality than what is offered at a more budget level but the last thing I wanted are e-drums that look like an acoustic kit. I already have acoustic kits that are look awesome. I want a change and I don't want to camoflauge what I have. I want to show it off and step into the modern era with both feet.

      I'm too old to care what anyone thinks anymore. Life is too short. Mostly I'm bored with the old gear. I want a new palette of sounds so much so that I have been investigating Sensory Percussion and contemplated adding other forms of synthesis. I've adopted the build it and they will come attitude. I'd proven my ability on the kit years ago to myself and my colleagues. I'm looking forward to this new chapter in my musical journey.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by qcaze View Post
        I believe he's correct on that point. He's not saying that edrums are bad, just that some drummers will not perform the same on an a-kit, if practicing solely on an e-kit. From personal experience that can be true. For the last 6 years, I've been playing only on e-kits with mesh heads and even though I've lowered the tension a lot on my tams, they're just way more bouncy than most acoustic tams. My performance was less than stellar, when I sat down with an acoustic kit last week for the first time in 10 years. I was, however, better than I'd expected
        Thank you for sharing your experience. You'll be stellar shortly if not already, nice work I stand corrected on that point.

        I use Real Feel 3 ply drum-tec heads which are worlds apart from the V-drum trampoline heads they came shipped with. I also pop back and forth between acoustic and e drum although not lately. So I'd better get to an acoustic soon, I'm not going to argue with 10 years of experience

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        • #64
          I did a experience a year of playing edrums only and had to work to get smooth on acoustic again, especially bass drum technique. It does help a lot have a E kit that is the same size as your acoustic kit or close.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by percussivewoman View Post
            I want a new palette of sounds so much so that I have been investigating Sensory Percussion and contemplated adding other forms of synthesis. I've adopted the build it and they will come attitude. I'd proven my ability on the kit years ago to myself and my colleagues. I'm looking forward to this new chapter in my musical journey.
            I'm looking forward to this chapter in your musical journey. For me these last 6 months have been laden with expenses, regrets, countless nights of experimentation but now an acoustic samples & electric samples e kit - Roland, Slate and SD3 synced up without that $%#@ latency that made me want to throw each piece of my e kit separately into the Hudson River and smash my Mac with a sledgehammer. I also agree that a slick looking pad kit is aesthetically and functionally the way to go but completely get why others prefer acoustic looking triggers, often without center cone for functionality and/or feel preference. Peter just made an excellent point above.

            I think Buddy would have agreed with me on pads although he'd never have played an e kit, and this is getting back to topic on snobbery towards electric drums. There are those who will never play them no matter what and feel they aren't real instruments. Keep us informed.
            Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-03-19, 08:00 PM. Reason: Typo

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            • #66
              In my case i can either play an ekit or not play at all,i started out on an acoustic kit but thanks to corruption etc.housing costs in my city are insane so most likely i will never be able to play acoustic drums again but i have my old acoustic kit converted to ekit with mesh heads and rt30 triggers and an ad5 module so its almost like playing acoustic anyways so i'm pretty content.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by demonocus View Post
                In my case i can either play an ekit or not play at all,i started out on an acoustic kit but thanks to corruption etc.housing costs in my city are insane so most likely i will never be able to play acoustic drums again but i have my old acoustic kit converted to ekit with mesh heads and rt30 triggers and an ad5 module so its almost like playing acoustic anyways so i'm pretty content.
                That sounds like a sweet setup.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by John.b View Post
                  The one thing I do worry about is the dynamics of E's. It don't matter how uneven you hit them they generally sound the same. I have noticed that using two kick pedals, the sound is the same but the actual beater travels and impacts are totally different and really I have no reason to try and correct the situation. Also, and after 10 years, I am still getting double hitting occasionally on these mesh heads. I am nearly 70 now and the old dogs and new tricks saying springs to mind.
                  Hey John!

                  If you are having dynamics issues with your non-kick pads - and I am not sure you are? - your sensitivity set-up is probably wrong, unless you need new cones which will screw up everything. Ideally, there are 128 levels of dynamics, which is a lot. Here is what I do, if it might help. Go into the Set-up section. Try using a linear sensitivity curve ( LOL, really a non-curve or straight line) for your non-kick pads. Adjust your sensitivity so that to max out the graph, you have to bash the head really HARD right in the center. Most people have their sensitivity set way too high. You want the lowest possible sensitivity setting. Then, turn up your output volume. And/or your speaker volume. A lot.

                  You should be able to drop your stick head from about 1/4" onto the head and hear it. If not, you need to reset cancellation, crosstalk type etc settings. If you do these things, the dynamics should be huge, and then all you need to do is adjust your output volume so your basic, say, backbeat snare strike gives you perfect volume for the room.

                  I used to think the V-drums didn't have enough dynamics myself until I figured out the problem was, as usual, with me and not the hardware. Eventually, you may find you want to experiment with different sensitivity curves for different pads. A Sigmoid curve, for example, will make your mid-velocity strikes pretty even (good for say, that backbeat snare) while still allowing you a linear section for low volume stuff, and a linear section for your harder-than-backbeat strikes.
                  Last edited by gingerbaker; 02-07-19, 01:08 PM.
                  Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance

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                  • #69
                    someone post a "legendary" e-kit performance, one that blows us away...






                    ... i didn't think so ...

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by davezedlee View Post
                      someone post a "legendary" e-kit performance, one that blows us away...






                      ... i didn't think so ...
                      Not so fast there gun totin' negative guy. You must be incredible. I love seeing someone play beautifully on an acoustic or e kit for that matter. So how about posting your legendary acoustic kit performance for us now and to stay on topic explain why you could never play an e kit as well?

                      I'm working on recording a performance on e drums but only just got things to where I'm playing more than tweaking. It's my goal to post some playing on the forum. Anyway we don't have 100 years of legendary e kit technology to support "legendary" performances we've only just landed. I've seen a stellar straight ahead and groovy performance this evening by MilosDrummer and a stellar funk performance by a guy who so "eloquently" posted himself playing I believe a Garibaldi groove on a TD-50 in response to a lot of TD-50 talk. I got pretty blown away watching Alan do a Fleetwood Mac song on one of his demos.

                      I humble myself by watching Buddy perform especially his last big solo at the Frank Sinatra concert. Legendary is an almost unattainable bar and must be time tested and "legendary" is confusing because it would seem you're being ironic. Sounds like you want to actually see someone playing instead of talking e drums.

                      Here are a few great performances:

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e67ZD8G9-_s

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMGE9IRFSrQ

                      Performance starts at 4:11

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_nh30ipwsI

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7QT..._radio=1&t=147
                      Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-06-19, 02:23 AM. Reason: Time code

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                      • #71

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                        • #72
                          awesome!
                          Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-06-19, 04:04 PM.

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                          • #73
                            And not one of them, at any time - even during the tricky parts - lost their balance and fell off the throne and cut their lip on the rim of the snare. From my long experience, that's impossible. So, wicked good editing - kudos to the production team!
                            Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance

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                            • #74
                              There have been comments here in the past from guys that have had to turn down the sensitivity of the kick because their right foot was getting lazy.

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                              • #75
                                They are some awesome drummers and they make all those ekits sound absolutely TD50, TD30,AND THE PADTECH

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