Vdrums with acoustic Hi Hats ?

[yzf125]

Im thinking of going this route, The weakest area in Vdrums are the hats and I just cant get that 100% feel that I have had with A hi hats on my past a kits. I play through my P.A. so I wouldnt think they would over power my Vdrums.

Anyone doing this ? I would like to hear some feedback if you are or have done it in the past. Also what hats would you suggest that aren't to loud ? I was looking at the Zildjian K thin 14" They seem a bit quieter than most and have a nice sound but are expensive.

Rick

[ohlarikd]

Have you tried using a Zildjian Gen16 Hi Hat? That is the best part of that setup, even if you do not like the crashes. The HH feels and sounds great. And it is quite quiet - more than a rubber hat but it plays like a real HH because it is.

Otherwise, if you use an acoustic HH and the PA is loud enough, then sure it wouldn't matter.

[wani87]

I guess it depends what is it for, gig? studio recording? practice? I have Zildjian K Dark 14" Hats, they are loud, like all acoustic drums are. If you are in an environment where you can turn your e-kit volume up to an acoustic level...sure why not? but makes me wonder why not just get an acoustic drum? .

Since my 14" K hats were easily over powering my little home studio monitor, and didn't wanted to go back to those piece of rubber, my current (perhaps only) solution was to get Gen16, the package is like 900$ so not worth it but if you just get Gen16 DCP, DS pick-up, 13" Hihat, all separately you can get them new or used in a range of 200~300$, got mine for 250$ all brand new on ebay which is 200$ less than the 14" K Dark hihats!

Now with my gen16 hats I am actually focusing more on "drumming" than messing around with the module and the pads to make this piece of rubber sound & feel like acoustic hihat...

[yzf125]

I did play the Gen 16 hats at GC and wasnt impressed with the sound, I didnt spend a lot of time with them though so I could be missing something with them ? I dont know, I would like to find a Hi hat that is quieter than most and the K light hats seem to be that but are very expensive. I may go back to GC and see if they still have the Gen 16 hats on the floor and try them again. I play with a full P.A. in my studio so volume isnt an issue and I use my VST studio drummer for my sounds... Just sick of the terrible hi hat play and long for the real deal !!

[yzf125]

Is there a difference between the 13" and 14" Gen 16 other than just size ?

[wani87]

I did play the Gen 16 hats at GC and wasnt impressed with the sound, I didnt spend a lot of time with them though so I could be missing something with them ? I dont know, I would like to find a Hi hat that is quieter than most and the K light hats seem to be that but are very expensive. I may go back to GC and see if they still have the Gen 16 hats on the floor and try them again. I play with a full P.A. in my studio so volume isnt an issue and I use my VST studio drummer for my sounds... Just sick of the terrible hi hat play and long for the real deal !!

Yes I feel your pain, but even if you go back to GC you will probably not find the right acoustic sound on Gen16 because most of GC don't have their DCP hooked up to a computer so you can adjust the tone and settings through the computer not through the DCP itself. DCP has about 20 presets and all 20 presets sounds terrible.

Try this link, this is closest preset I could find on youtube that doesn't sound like crap, he probably did some tweaking through computer and export the preset to his DCP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH0DyLKgOqM

but if the volume is not an issue, I would go for real acoustic hats. In fact, I would go full acoustic and get some nice mic set up

[ohlarikd]

Is there a difference between the 13" and 14" Gen 16 other than just size ?

Just like acoustics, the smaller one is higher in tone. I have both, but prefer the 13". Guitar Center will not have it set it up well. Also, I use two sensors on the hats, one on top and one on bottom for a fuller sound. They do not sound as good as real hats, but close enough in my opinion, and the playability far outweighs the sound. Get the parts used on eBay.

The main reason for Gen16 is low volume. If you don't need low volume, then why bother, sure.

All acoustic hats are loud. Maybe some are less loud than others, but they are all loud. So pick any of them if you go that route.

[jpsquared482]

I play both acoustics and electronics. One of the key reasons I went with the TD30 is the VH13. It's as good a electronic hats get, and very hard to tell from the real thing in a mix, and very darn close even playing solo - IMHO.

[yzf125]

So this DCP unit is another cost I didnt think about, This is something you have to have in order to play these ? I might just stay the A route as its less hassle.

[ohlarikd]

So this DCP unit is another cost I didnt think about, This is something you have to have in order to play these ? I might just stay the A route as its less hassle.

Certainly the A-route is less hassle. More so for the drums themselves! For the Gen16, you need a DCP (which is like the drum module), the Direct Source sensor ('trigger' cone), and the cymbal itself (mesh head). So component-wise it is the same.

I guess your original question was looking for someone who used A's with Vdrums. I have an A kit in front of my E-Kit, and the volume difference is substantial. You would need to really crank up the PA volume. Most people buy E-Kits due to noise/volume issues, but sounds like you have a different reason for the E-Kit?

[yzf125]

Yes I like the "Quality sounds" I get from my VST's at 1/2 to 3/4 to A volume without the Harsh loudness of A's and like the ability to change the volume at any time, where with A's its not the case.

I miss the real Hat feel and control over the E hats but they have to sound good also. I wish the Gen 16's sounded better...

[wani87]

Yes I like the "Quality sounds" I get from my VST's at 1/2 to 3/4 to A volume without the Harsh loudness of A's and like the ability to change the volume at any time, where with A's its not the case.

I miss the real Hat feel and control over the E hats but they have to sound good also. I wish the Gen 16's sounded better...

DCP cost is insane, I think 400$ new? but I bought open box but brand new for 105$ on ebay, try to find some deal, for some reason open box or used price goes way down, and installment is not a big hassle, specially if you already have a e-drum kit you can just hook your current module to DCP to get single output for both sounds.

Also you said the ability to change volume any time... you will not get this option anymore once you get an acoustic hi-hat, just a thought.

If you have any acoustic hi-hat try using them with your e-drum see the balance of the volume and if you like it go for it. I've used Zildjian A Custom, New beat, K dark, Sabian AAX & HHX, they just have different tones but volume wise they are all pretty much the same.

[Vectron]

My two cents. Yes, I gig with acoustic cymbals mixed with edrums all the time.

Example of one of my Setups :
Acoustic HH, Crash-Ride, Splash, and Snare + Electronic BD and DTX M12 Multipad for Toms and Percussion on the 6 flat pads, and additional Crashes (China, Gong, more Splashes, etc.) and Loops, on the 6 edge triggers. I love how the M12s display and controls are right in front of me.
For me, I found this to be the best balance between easy lightweight compact setup and best sound quality.
From a portability standpoint, acoustic cymbals are a heck of a lot easier to carry, and setup than eCymbals.
As far as reducing volume of Acoustic HHs, I recommend changing to lighter sticks and trying different beads.
In my situation, I'm not a heavy hitter, so sometimes actually have to change to heavier sticks if I need to sound louder.
The beauty of it all is, that you can mix and match anything you want, anytime you want, and still sound good.

[Kabonfaiba]

With a good PA setup I would agree with the live hybrid kit. You would still need ekit parts in place of the acoustic parts when you go home. But what needs exchanging?

For me, that would be Hi-hat and Ride.

I'd still keep the e-chinas and e-crashes, purely because those are where the "harsh noise" problem often lies with acoustics. Also about chewing up your sticks on the edges of cymbals; I'm less likely to ever edge hit a ride, and if you play softly on the Hi-hat that shouldn't pose much of an issue. Basically anything that is a single zone works really well on ekits, edge only + aftertouch on crashes.

So I would always bring a laptop - play a VST through a PA + Sub, with the snare, toms and bass and crashes to get that "fully open" quality at lower volumes, but with real hi-hat and ride balanced with a PA. Then you'll still have the ability to really play the hats... and have the best 3 zone ride ever with perfect triggering! But you can still change the heart of your kit sound via the VST, go from metal to jazz in an instant etc. Just a matter of finding a perfectly matched hi-hat and ride sound that gels with your e-kit and most music genres.

[perceval]

Try this link, this is closest preset I could find on youtube that doesn't sound like crap, he probably did some tweaking through computer and export the preset to his DCP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH0DyLKgOqM

Yikes... this is a good video of the HH sounds? That sounded tiny and lifeless to me.

I was almost sold from reading about the new DS pickups and the playability of the Gen16 HH, even checked what was available locally, but if this is the best that can be achieved after a lot of tweaking with that setup, I think I'll pass.