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7/4

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  • 7/4

    cannot get my head around this 7/4 any tips or tricks to counting this ?
    TD -10 EXP V-PRO, TD-12 module,HPD-15,SPD-30 ,SPD-SX dual trigger toms,upgraded V-cymbals Korg Karma,M-3, Pearl Eliminator DBL pedals,KD-120, Sonor Maple acoustic, Zildjian Cymbals
    Gene Krupa,Mitch Mitchell,Akira Jimbo,Milos Meier

  • #2
    depending on the music count it as a 4 and a 3, or the other way around...
    TD9+6v with Diamond Electronic pads, and cowbell.
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    • #3
      There is no one universal answer to this. Saku's approach doesn't work for me, I tried it years ago.

      One of the easiest ways to learn a basic 7/4 beat is as follows

      Kick-Snare-Kick-Snare-Kick-Snare-Kick

      Once you get your head, er, feet wrapped around what essentially is a little double-kick in the overall pattern, you'll do fine.

      www.myspace.com/rubberuniverse
      TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

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      • #4
        Originally posted by logan View Post
        cannot get my head around this 7/4 any tips or tricks to counting this ?
        1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

        IMHO, you're best bet is keeping track of which beats the snare hits on. So if the snare hits on 2, 4, and 7, make sure that you play the snare on those beats. But really, it's all about constantly counting (and subdividing) and knowing which beat you're on.

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        • #5
          the top number is how many beats per measure....the bottom is a little more confusing but being that it is the basic 4, I think it tells you to play the 7 beats per measure like you would any standard 4/4 time - just count 7 per measure as normal....better yet.....skip that song

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          • #6
            Just count along to Money by Pink Floyd as much of this is in 7/4 (or 7/8 depending upon how you count).

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            • #7
              The bottom number is just what type of note is being counted. In this case, quarter notes. A measure of 7/4 has 7 quarter notes per measure.

              1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and

              And like Grog said, one way to get the feel for this is to create a simple quarter note beat that omits the final snare. Here is a file I whipped up that does just this for 4 measures, also opening the HiHat on the 1.

              http://www.rockdebris.com/audio/samples/time/7_4.mp3

              You can also try thinking of it as 2 measures of 4/4, except the final quarter note beat is missing. That is a trick I used to do a lot with time signatures. Say the time signature was 5/4. Then you can think of it as a measure of 4/4 with an extra quarter note. Here, that extra quarter note is played with the kick:

              http://www.rockdebris.com/audio/samples/time/5_4.mp3

              (1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and)

              But this is only to help get you started. What you actually play is always determined by the piece and usually I'll get a feel for the accents first against the count to help sort it out. But mainly, I'll try to feel what I'm doing, just keeping in mind when any measure is shorter or longer than common 4/4.

              And to help you get your head around what the second number means, lets say it was 7/8 you were counting. Then there would be 7 eighth notes per measure:

              1 and 2 and 3 and 4

              Demonstrated:

              http://www.rockdebris.com/audio/samples/time/7_8.mp3

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              • #8
                Originally posted by hodsmack4 View Post
                the top number is how many beats per measure....the bottom is a little more confusing but being that it is the basic 4, I think it tells you to play the 7 beats per measure like you would any standard 4/4 time - just count 7 per measure as normal....better yet.....skip that song
                The bottom number tells you what note gets a beat. In this case, the quarter note gets one beat, seven beats per measure... twirling on a branch, eating lots of sunflowers, at my uncle's ranch... which is great, until someone comes out with 6/4 time.

                And you count it like anything else... 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and | 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and (or however you like to count)

                I think your real question, which has basically been answered, is how do you FEEL 7/4 time so you don't f-up.

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                • #9
                  wow! thank you everyone for the great feedback.This came up listening on the TD-12 #30 Booth 7/4 Funk sequence x 2 I hear it, feel it ,and play it,but if I try to count it I am lost. I have another 7/8 on my synth I have never got the feel for.

                  thanks for the mp3s Joe
                  TD -10 EXP V-PRO, TD-12 module,HPD-15,SPD-30 ,SPD-SX dual trigger toms,upgraded V-cymbals Korg Karma,M-3, Pearl Eliminator DBL pedals,KD-120, Sonor Maple acoustic, Zildjian Cymbals
                  Gene Krupa,Mitch Mitchell,Akira Jimbo,Milos Meier

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                  • #10
                    Listen to Dave Bruebeck (Joe Morello) "Unsquare Dance"...I'm not sure of the album...think it may be "Time In Outer Space". Very straight forward 1234123.
                    Handclap in this version accents beats 2,4,6,7...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mark Filling View Post
                      Listen to Dave Bruebeck (Joe Morello) "Unsquare Dance"...I'm not sure of the album...think it may be "Time In Outer Space". Very straight forward 1234123.
                      Handclap in this version accents beats 2,4,6,7...
                      very typical in 'Take 5' - accenting the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1 2, 3, 4, 5, 1

                      accenting the last 2 beats of the measure

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                      • #12
                        It just dawned on me that I have a clip of this from around 3-4 years ago. Well, the backing part at least. If you want to hear Money and get a clear feel for the 7/4 beat:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2qx61qntpk

                        That's me on the keyboards several months back playing the sax solo as transcribed for well, the keyboard. What you care about is the cover of Money being played in the background. The drums are me on my old TD-7 kit again from around 3-4 years ago. The crash hit you hear is always on the 7th beat, simultaeneous with the kick (which you can't hear well).

                        www.myspace.com/rubberuniverse
                        TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

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                        • #13
                          Unsquare Dance is from the Album Time Further Out. It has a Joan Miro painting on the cover.

                          Years ago when I first started playing odd meters (ELP, Yes, etc.) I tried counting the measures as multiples of 3/4 and 4/4 or something similar. You know, 5/4 was 4/4 with an extra beat or 7/4 was a measure of 4/4 followed by 3/4. I don't think that's a good idea. I remember listening to "Lucky 7" from Chris Squire's Fish Out of Water where Bruford plays this nice laid back 7/4. I tried playing it and after a while came to "feel" it the way you first feel 3/4. It is the timing that it is. I would never, ever, today try to play something more complicated as a collection of smaller measures (unless it just happened to have that natural feel). If I write something in 11/8, it's 11/8. I don't try to play it as 4/8+4/8+3/8. I guess it's OK to start out that way to just get through an exercise, but you'll never be relaxed and natural if you're constantly thinking something like "this is the measure with one less (or one extra) beat".

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                          • #14
                            Ok - so here's a thought that may help, at least it does for me. every beat before seven is a one-syllable word, 7 is two syllables, so it can make it harder to count without actually going to the 8th beat. I count my seven as "sev" instead.

                            HTH
                            My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

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                            • #15
                              Also - just another interesting tidbit. My band (from years ago) used to have a song where the chorus went 7/8, 6/8, 7/8, 6/8, 4/4, repeat, where the rest of the song is 4/4. I actually played a 4 on the floor feel against that with the snare doing two 16ths to the last 8th note kick. In the "middle section" which was also another chorus, I really goofed with it, where the snare is left out, hi-hats are marking 16th note time, and the kick is like this:

                              2, 4, 6 (first 7/8 measure)
                              1, 3, 6 (6/8 measure)
                              repeat

                              I was originally going to do this even a little more off-puting with the kick and snare alternating in the same as those counts, but the band thought it was too wierd. All in all, for an odd-meter chorus, it sounds pretty 4/4.

                              Hope that adds something.
                              My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

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