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Newbie Grip Question

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  • Newbie Grip Question

    I'm new to drumming & have a question about grips when practicing single/double stroke rolls, etc... When I go into doubles I find that I'm letting the stick bounce create the double taps vs. my wrist. Basically I am easing off on my grip and letting the index & thumb hold the stick & letting the rebound create most of the double/tripple hits. The reason I do this is because that seems a heck of a lot easer than holding the stick firmly & making my wrists do the work.

    Is this right or should I let the wrist do more of the work? I ask because I don't want to develop a bad habit & because the problem I'm running into is that using the bounce makes it very difficult for me to control the number of hits (especially w/ my weak hand). Meaning, since I hold the stick very lightly I easily get 3 hits when I want 2 or vice-versa.
    My Gased Out TD9SX

    sigpic

    More pics at http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=115

  • #2
    I would recommend a full grip (however, as loose as possible) with all your fingers wrapped around the stick. On double strokes (for instance), your first strike should naturally be with your wrist while the second strike should come from your last two fingers (pinky and ring fingers). Therefore, as the stick bounces up from your first hard strike the fingers should rebound the stick as if you are slapping your fingers to the inside of your palms.

    Such as this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJWld...eature=related

    Using your fingers will allow you to control the number of bounces desired for the roll.

    Two things come to mind to watch for (these are very simple ways to tell if you are doing your doubles properly):

    1. You should be able to play the same way on a pillow or your leg where there is no bounce assistance. This way you know you are using your wrist and fingers.

    2. Your pinky (or any other fingers for that matter) should not be sticking out to the side. Rather, every finger should be wrapped around the stick, however, gently. Do not confuse this with having to grip the stick with a lot of pressure. You want just enough grip/pressure so the stick doesn't come flying out of your hand.

    I hope this helps a bit. You will want to take it really slow to master the technique before you speed it up.... this will build up your wrist muscles and memory of proper technique. Remember, you really only should be using your wrist on the first stroke like in a single stroke... the second comes from the fingers.

    And, this is more than a cliche: Practice does NOT make perfect - it makes permanent. Therefore, it is important that you try to learn the proper technique to begin with so you don't have to spend a lot of time undoing what you have been practicing too long.
    Last edited by sopranos; 12-20-08, 01:44 PM.

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    • #3
      It is a common mistake that beginners make to hold the stick only between the thumb and index finger. Sure, it makes you really fast, but it's a terrible habit and will hinder your development in the future.

      You actually answered your own question in the last sentences of your post. Holding the stick incorrectly yields you ZERO control.

      It's more difficult, but really work on using a full grip, with all fingers touching and controlling the stick, while you practice. Make sure your wrists are relaxed and going through a full range of motion.

      Remember the famous three P's...
      Pillow Practice (makes) Perfect



      And everything Sopranos said...
      *TDW-20* KD-8 w/Iron Cobra single, PD-125, PD-80R, VH-11, PD-8(X3), CY-12R/C, CY-8(X2), older MDS-6 rack with additional lower crossbar for support, Roc 'n' Soc Nitro, ATH-M50 and MDR-7506

      Life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think...

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks! After checking that video out & see that I am not using my other fingers to help. I was completely relying on bounce & the pressure I applied between my thumb & index finger so I was not using any of my other fingers.
        My Gased Out TD9SX

        sigpic

        More pics at http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=115

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm noticing that when I try this that my pinky is often not touching the stick. Also I'm having a much harder time getting the bounce & using the fingers to strike a second time w/ my left hand (weak one). It seems like I end up just relaxing the grip but then it seems like it's back to the index & thumb holding the stick. I don't seem to have that problem w/ my right hand.

          Does this sound right/normal? Maybe I just need to focus my attention w/ this on my left hand?
          My Gased Out TD9SX

          sigpic

          More pics at http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=115

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks! If I use a pillow or my leg and I am gettng zero bounce am I to assume I use wrist to bring the stick up after the first hit? Then I close the fingers to force the stick back down?

            Originally posted by Soundofmind View Post
            It is a common mistake that beginners make to hold the stick only between the thumb and index finger. Sure, it makes you really fast, but it's a terrible habit and will hinder your development in the future.

            You actually answered your own question in the last sentences of your post. Holding the stick incorrectly yields you ZERO control.

            It's more difficult, but really work on using a full grip, with all fingers touching and controlling the stick, while you practice. Make sure your wrists are relaxed and going through a full range of motion.

            Remember the famous three P's...
            Pillow Practice (makes) Perfect



            And everything Sopranos said...
            My Gased Out TD9SX

            sigpic

            More pics at http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=115

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by netsurfr View Post
              Thanks! If I use a pillow or my leg and I am gettng zero bounce am I to assume I use wrist to bring the stick up after the first hit? Then I close the fingers to force the stick back down?
              Yep. That seems right to me.

              Start out going painfully slow. Use this time to really watch your hands and technique. Both hands should be even in all respects. Practice in front of a mirror. Even better, record yourself on video and watch it. That way, you can nit-pick your technique from a 3rd person vantage point. You'll find yourself saying things like, "No wonder my diddles aren't even! Look at: the angle of my forearm/the way my left elbow sticks out/how my pinky and ring fingers come off the stick the faster I go/how silly my friends think I am for doing this/etc..."

              Nothing will give you that "out-of-body" experience until you've witnessed your playing from, well... er... out of your body.
              *TDW-20* KD-8 w/Iron Cobra single, PD-125, PD-80R, VH-11, PD-8(X3), CY-12R/C, CY-8(X2), older MDS-6 rack with additional lower crossbar for support, Roc 'n' Soc Nitro, ATH-M50 and MDR-7506

              Life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think...

              Comment


              • #8
                Probably be a good idea to also get a couple of lessons so that an expert can diagnose any technique problems and you can then practice knowing you're going in the right direction.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Great. Thanks for all the help/advice. I probably will take some lessons to make sure I'm heading in the right direction and not developing some bad habits from the start.
                  My Gased Out TD9SX

                  sigpic

                  More pics at http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=115

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just saw this video on YouTube:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXgxa...eature=related

                    This is what I have been doing (relaxing my fingers after the hit to the point that the pinky doesn't make contact w/ the stick). Does the technique on this video seem correct?
                    My Gased Out TD9SX

                    sigpic

                    More pics at http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=115

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This video is a great example of how to break down an exercise. Slow, careful examination of technique. Keep in mind that the technique demonstrated is GROSSLY exaggerated... But that's the idea. In practical application, your fingers will never get that far from the stick. He just wants to indicate the rebound motion of the stick.

                      Sergio Bellotti certainly knows what he's talking about. BTW - He's got a feature page on vicfirth.com If you haven't checked out the education section on that website, you should.

                      Also, look at Sergio's solo on the song St. Thomas. (It can be found on youtube under 'more videos by this user'. It's a great example of where your double strokes will end up!!!
                      *TDW-20* KD-8 w/Iron Cobra single, PD-125, PD-80R, VH-11, PD-8(X3), CY-12R/C, CY-8(X2), older MDS-6 rack with additional lower crossbar for support, Roc 'n' Soc Nitro, ATH-M50 and MDR-7506

                      Life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by netsurfr View Post
                        Great. Thanks for all the help/advice. I probably will take some lessons to make sure I'm heading in the right direction and not developing some bad habits from the start.

                        I really wish I had done that in the beginning....

                        I'm totally self-taught, and I am replete with bad habits. Over the years, I have had the opportunity to watch many accomplished drummers and their technique. I also took the time to ask drummers, when appropriate, about how they did XYZ, or how did you EVER get good at playing ABC.... You get the idea. Make sure you soak up as much info from pros as you can. Hey, it's cheaper than lessons! (But not a substitute....)
                        *TDW-20* KD-8 w/Iron Cobra single, PD-125, PD-80R, VH-11, PD-8(X3), CY-12R/C, CY-8(X2), older MDS-6 rack with additional lower crossbar for support, Roc 'n' Soc Nitro, ATH-M50 and MDR-7506

                        Life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks. I looked up him up on VicFirth. I REALLY like his style of playing and teaching. Really cool. The St. Thomas clip was great too. He sure inspires you to just let the music flow through and worry less about the "thinking" part. Some really good info on that education center of VicFirth from him.

                          Originally posted by Soundofmind View Post
                          This video is a great example of how to break down an exercise. Slow, careful examination of technique. Keep in mind that the technique demonstrated is GROSSLY exaggerated... But that's the idea. In practical application, your fingers will never get that far from the stick. He just wants to indicate the rebound motion of the stick.

                          Sergio Bellotti certainly knows what he's talking about. BTW - He's got a feature page on vicfirth.com If you haven't checked out the education section on that website, you should.

                          Also, look at Sergio's solo on the song St. Thomas. (It can be found on youtube under 'more videos by this user'. It's a great example of where your double strokes will end up!!!
                          My Gased Out TD9SX

                          sigpic

                          More pics at http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=115

                          Comment

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