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I SUCK!

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  • I SUCK!

    I SUCK!

    Provocative subject line: Gotcha! {(SMILE)}

    We all have a role and since I'm not the most electronically technical person when it comes to electronic drums, and just generally don't know a screwdriver from a hammer, I like to keep injecting energy into this forum, especially in light of the owner of Alan who is a rock star amongst all rock stars. (Yeah I'm talking about you Alan ).

    So let's do this…

    I think this is a good thread, if not that's okay I'll start another. It just occurred to me though that there are some songs I just don't play well. I'm not speaking necessarily about a genre, for instance let's say Latin, wherein obviously I would not play a Latin song very well unless I had good Latin chops. I'm speaking more about songs that that saves the sake of argument I (you, he, she) do have the necessary chops for, let's just further say a typical rock song, but, for whatever reason, I (you/he/she) just don't play well.

    I don't want to limit this to just rock songs but of course. Any genre is in play: pun intended. {(GRIN)}

    As well I thought about adding things we play extraordinarily well, songs, genres, with really no limitation; I'll leave it up to you all decide if y'all want to add that stuff in or not. That perhaps could be a separate thread that I will start if feedback is such.

    As drummers we all have strengths and weaknesses. I don't believe there are drummers who are alive or resting in peace would say otherwise. I think that plays (those puns!) a part of this. It's that I believe it would be helpful if so would be helpful and possibly give tips to others who dare to share what they cannot play very well. Some of you may say this belongs in the drumming technique section. I beg to differ. The helping each other part of this if it even happens is a small element of what I'm trying to convey here. I hope that comes across.

    I think it's a good idea to include links to a song. If you wish by all means please upload you playing the song alone or with a band or whatever. Since I'm not too electronically technical I will not be uploading me playing anything, especially things I play really bad, I will spare your ear-drums, (pun fun pun!).

    So last thoughts: we all really should not take ourselves too seriously. There are sometimes some things I do that I think potentially I do that at least on that day better than any of drummer in the world. There are some days that I sucks so bad I want to throw all of my drum equipment including sticks, the pads, everything, into a pile, pour gasoline on, and watch the pretty colors as it burns. I can be real and raw: I hope that's appreciated.

    So I begin with this song. I can play it. I have never played it with a band, thankfully. I have never played it live, goodness gracious thanks to the sound-God's saving assaulting the audience. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself; I'm just saying that I do not "feel" the song. I'm also more of a loosey-goosey player expressionist player and songs like this that require more or less almost pure exactitude and replication are not my forte. I believe that is why I don't play well. I cannot express my soul in the song. It's too linear. It's too "canned". Though I am not taking away from the brilliance of the song, nor obviously the amazing drumming, nor obviously the resting in peace master drummer that we all know: Jeff P.

    I understand everything about this song, I understand everything about the drumming triplet shuffle, I could teach a seminar on it, for some reason I just don't "nail it." HMPF

    Toto: Rosanna
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmOLtTGvsbM





    Last edited by GuruMyStick; 12-25-19, 04:14 AM.
    TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-9-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

  • #2
    I blame Jeff for highlighting my inadequacies ;-). I struggle with Lido Shuffle, despite lots of practice. I just get the shuffle groove going up to speed and then there is the break and it goes off the rails.
    ATV aDrums Artist expanded kit, Mimic Pro. Ludwig 1967 black oyster pearl five piece, Zildjian A custom crashes, A. Zildjian ride and hats.

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    • #3
      Reggie, the bane of my life. I really like the music, I can feel the tempo but just cant do it justice. Cant get the chops right.

      Comment


      • #4
        if you want to play Rosanna the correct way but struggle, try learning Fool in the Rain first. it's a slower variation of the Purdie shuffle. I could never play Rosanna correctly and had given up on it, i just played it the hack way. I Needed to learn Fool in the rain for a gig and it came really easily to me, and within a few days was playing Rosanna very smooth just like it's supposed to be played.

        this worked for me.


        Noble & Cooley acoustics. Meinl cymbals.
        Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RIneuron View Post
          I blame Jeff for highlighting my inadequacies ;-). I struggle with Lido Shuffle, despite lots of practice. I just get the shuffle groove going up to speed and then there is the break and it goes off the rails.
          "I blame Jeff for highlighting my inadequacies ;-)"

          Ya, there it is
          TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-9-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Roving Drummer View Post
            if you want to play Rosanna the correct way but struggle, try learning Fool in the Rain first. it's a slower variation of the Purdie shuffle. I could never play Rosanna correctly and had given up on it, i just played it the hack way. I Needed to learn Fool in the rain for a gig and it came really easily to me, and within a few days was playing Rosanna very smooth just like it's supposed to be played.

            this worked for me.

            Really good advice, like many of you I'm also a drum teacher, what you say is exactly how I teach my students to approach learning how to play the Purdie Shuffle incrementally, then go to the mountain top and hit Toto Rosanna.

            I followed your pathway. yes playing the Zeppelin song is a very good step to do. John financing correctly was a "student" I don't know directly or not of Buddy Rich. I don't know how proficient he really wasn't playing jazz. He clearly though was Triplet cooking much more than four-hooking.

            To go little deeper, if I was to upload a recording of me playing Rosanna you when most others probably would not even hear any problem. It's more than "inner feeling" than anything else. I just know I'm not flowing and in the groove and in the pocket etc.

            I can play the shuffle proficiently. I can explain it on the YouTube video. I could give a seminar. I still suck at it.

            It think it bears repetition to help others: we are all different as people and hence musicians. I am in my 40s started playing when I was five years old so I have 40 years experience. That's not necessarily a good thing. Depends on what one has done without time. if one practiced badly for 40 years bad things can result. a lot of students come to me are guys who have been playing for years and I have to literally go back to the basics of how to hold a stick. Usually as most musicians are egos are too big to deal with that and I don't come back. My real expertise is being something of mechanical expert. I'm also heavily into martial arts, for a very long time. And boxing and such. I pay attention to mechanics, and when I teach MMA for instance, have taught some champions, and may not be bbe able to beat them, but my mechanics help them because I "see" how the body should move.

            At this point I'm just too old to be in a cover band and I never again really want to replicate what another guy played who is now much older, aging, in a nursing home, or dead. He did what he did at that time and if he still alive it's very rare that if he really had his want that he would play exactly the same thing the same way if given the opportunity. Sometimes when they HAVE to play live gigs and they have to replicate certain drum fills that have become iconic for the "air-drummers", though it's been my experience of watching these guys that they don't bother or they have evolved and thank God they moved on and played differently now.

            I like to hit things now. When I like to hit them. I know music theory and the "playing field" of music very well. The good thing about that is that I know with the downbeat is. So sometimes when I'm playing with other musicians they think I'm "offbeat" or something, I am not, I know exactly what I am. I tell them to breathe relax and I will "resolve" and I'm just expressing myself, they're just not used to this kind of expression playing.

            I'm currently recording an album that will be released I believe this year, we are rewriting all songs into a new format, no not the Justin Bieber junk, just changing songs enough that they're barely recognizable but still played with instruments. For instance turning a classical song into a blues song. Or a Beatles song into a jazz song. Etc. Thinking outside the box. It allows me to the Expressionists and express myself because I'm creating essentially from nothing, though the template is the original song.

            Electronic drums helps with this process a lot. I know I have an old module will actually two modules. That's another long story. Still has plenty of capability of creating plenty of sounds that so far I feel no urgent need to upgrade to anything else. No offense to anybody else when I sit down and play the newest modules I just don't see that big of a difference. And if I am saying it correctly the Roland 50 module has incredibly made only the cymbal and the snare drum fully responsive, though did not include the toms and bass drum, and I'm not spending $10,000 a whatever until they make everything fully responsive. I am not electronically proficient so maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. I think when I'm saying is correct if you understand what I'm saying. I hope I'm making herself understood. Until then I will play my dinosaur kit. It suits me just fine. And all of the fine musicians I play with like it just fine as well. And I'm certain if this album runs on all that nobody's going to say "oh my God he played in ancient module!"

            Anyway I digress as usual. So again to reinforce the problem generally with Rosanna is that it has very little room for expression. It's just too linear. Two canned. I'm just done with that stuff. And maybe that's why my soul cannot find it.

            If I had to say what my forte is probably the blues. I'm not talking about necessarily: "I lost my girl, my dog died, I can't buy a burger, boom boom boom bop..."
            Johnny Lang., Robert Cray, I call it more "pop blues".

            I'm considering submitting some tracks to Robert Cray, you never know. I know he has a drummer but things happen. I would love to become his drummer.
            And by the way I think if there is one single person who should win the all-time title of most underrated "modern" musician, writer, singer, guitar play, goes on and on, this guy is a modern-day Beethoven and I do not understand how this guy has not gotten more widespread respect. I hope before he dies which is unlikely that somebody lost him into true international fame, if only for humanity to be exposed to the wonderment of his music and musicianship etc.
            Most of the high-end guitarist including Eric Clapton who plays with him all the time, they fully recognize the monster this guy is.

            Still not sure the Rosanna thing with me is fixable. Not sure really want to fix it. When I was 20 years old I would listen to songs like this thousands of times and play them thousands of times with the bands I was playing publicly with in scummy bars, and usually get it down to nail it. It's funny I think I did damage. I analyzed music so much slower like a puzzle, that at one point I actually did not like music. I know that sounds really weird. This condition is called something or other I cannot remember right now. there was a time when I would play music to get paid for it, I put myself to law school as a studio drummer for instance, but I would rarely listen to it. I lost my love for music. Can you believe that? Sounds unreal but true. I'm not alone.

            I have returned to love music. I just can't overdo it anymore. Some people can't get enough. My system was overloaded. I still have to respect my mind and my body and when I feel it's enough I walk away.

            I practice a lot because I like it not because I feel I have to. But sometimes I go days even weeks I just don't feel like it. When hi sit down I am unusually better for listening to my body. At this point if four decades of stuff has not entrenched in my system well so be it.

            When I do practice they do go over some old stuff, and some stuff not remembered in some time, but usually I push to new things.

            I'm okay a jazz for instance, though I would like to become much more proficient at it. Thing is I don't love jazz.
            I like Latin. I'm okay at it. By no means and I a Latin master. A high-level Latin band would not hire me. They should not. I would like to get to the point where more proficient at Latin. I like that stuff.

            Enough for now brothers and sisters, happy new year and let's keep this going
            TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-9-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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            • #7
              Originally posted by John.b View Post
              Reggie, the bane of my life. I really like the music, I can feel the tempo but just cant do it justice. Cant get the chops right.
              such a simple genre in general, though yes there are nuances and subtleties that if one does not go to feel" they will not nail it.

              Disco is/was like that. There were some cats who can nail that stuff. Some could not. In my opinion Michael Jackson took a lot from disco. I forgot his name from his name, not a flashy player, but damn the guy could nail that stuff. Anybody who listens to that massive hit records from the Bee Gees and thinks that is not a master production, well I don't know what you're listening to. Very simple drumming, though obviously nailed to the wall. I don't know who their drama was, but he was on fire.

              I'm going to paraphrase a quote from Alice Cooper: I hated disco, that I sat down and listened to staying alive album from the Bee Gees, from beginning to end, I was mesmerized, I cried like a baby, because I realized I probably had just listened to the best album I ever did and would listen to again.

              if you have prejudice I hearken you to go and listen to that really big hit album from the Bee Gees. Just drop all your preconceived notions and listen. The studio work is unparalleled. The singing unparalleled. The instrumentation unparalleled. Is as good as a Pink Floyd production? I don't know. Open your mind and open your ears and you might be surprised at how good it really is.
              TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-9-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Roving Drummer View Post
                if you want to play Rosanna the correct way but struggle, try learning Fool in the Rain first. it's a slower variation of the Purdie shuffle. I could never play Rosanna correctly and had given up on it, i just played it the hack way. I Needed to learn Fool in the rain for a gig and it came really easily to me, and within a few days was playing Rosanna very smooth just like it's supposed to be played.

                this worked for me.

                Thanks a lot for this suggestion. Nice song by the way.

                But now I have another Problem or could you please suggest a second song to learn how to play "fool in the rain"?
                Former ddrum4 User, currently setting up new edrum Set with Millenium low-noise Cymbals with stealth conversion, Modules edrumin & drumit five, VST SD3

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dewaaachner View Post

                  Thanks a lot for this suggestion. Nice song by the way.

                  But now I have another Problem or could you please suggest a second song to learn how to play "fool in the rain"?
                  lol, I do not have a stepping stone tune for Fool in the rain. But this is how it went down for me...

                  I used this tutorial to learn Rosanna. I tried a bunch of youtube lessons and this was the best one for me.

                  https://youtu.be/hnX6tUJvM8o

                  So I learned it exact, but couldn't play it smoothly no matter how long I practiced it. I was playing it correctly but it didn't feel right. So with the band I just continued to play it the way it "felt" good to me. which was not the correct way. Most people couldn't tell I was playing it wrong. But when I finally got it right, all the musicians in town recognized it and made sure to tell me the were impressed. No one ever gave me a compliment when playing the hack version. Many months(maybe a year)after using the lesson I posted above... I then learned Fool in the rain. And what I learned from this video really translated to Bonhams version of the shuffle. I had it down in like 15 minutes. I didn't use youtube or anything other than just listening to the tune. It just came naturally(well naturally after practicing rosanna version of the shuffle for many many hours.

                  Im going to add. For me, this was easier to learn on an acoustic kit. Its important that you can hear the nuanaces between the hats and snare. I play it exactly the same way on my eDrums as I do on Acoustics and it's not the same. it sound's great on my E's but doesn't feel the same. I suggest if possible... learn both these on acoustics.







                  Noble & Cooley acoustics. Meinl cymbals.
                  Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roving Drummer View Post

                    lol, I do not have a stepping stone tune for Fool in the rain. But this is how it went down for me...

                    I used this tutorial to learn Rosanna. I tried a bunch of youtube lessons and this was the best one for me.

                    https://youtu.be/hnX6tUJvM8o

                    So I learned it exact, but couldn't play it smoothly no matter how long I practiced it. I was playing it correctly but it didn't feel right. So with the band I just continued to play it the way it "felt" good to me. which was not the correct way. Most people couldn't tell I was playing it wrong. But when I finally got it right, all the musicians in town recognized it and made sure to tell me the were impressed. No one ever gave me a compliment when playing the hack version. Many months(maybe a year)after using the lesson I posted above... I then learned Fool in the rain. And what I learned from this video really translated to Bonhams version of the shuffle. I had it down in like 15 minutes. I didn't use youtube or anything other than just listening to the tune. It just came naturally(well naturally after practicing rosanna version of the shuffle for many many hours.

                    Im going to add. For me, this was easier to learn on an acoustic kit. Its important that you can hear the nuanaces between the hats and snare. I play it exactly the same way on my eDrums as I do on Acoustics and it's not the same. it sound's great on my E's but doesn't feel the same. I suggest if possible... learn both these on acoustics.






                    Thank you... I will try. Not that I need to have it ready, but more to practise.
                    Former ddrum4 User, currently setting up new edrum Set with Millenium low-noise Cymbals with stealth conversion, Modules edrumin & drumit five, VST SD3

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                    • #11
                      This lesson by Stephen Taylor is the best I have found for Fool in the Rain.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcxnZTfilGU
                      ATV aDrums Artist expanded kit, Mimic Pro. Ludwig 1967 black oyster pearl five piece, Zildjian A custom crashes, A. Zildjian ride and hats.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dewaaachner View Post

                        Thanks a lot for this suggestion. Nice song by the way.

                        But now I have another Problem or could you please suggest a second song to learn how to play "fool in the rain"?
                        Both gentlemen above gave you very good advice.

                        Both are correct that there are good lessons on it on YouTube of which some they gave you.

                        There is a guy named Jared, long story short of it as I get the impression you're new to this, he's polarizing because some people seem to like him and some people seem to not like him. I like him. He is not a "master drummer" in my opinion, however he does bring master drummers onto his YouTube platform which I believe is the largest of such on the Internet so he's doing a great service to us all.

                        Sometimes it's best to go to the source of the whole thing which would be Bernard Purdie, and here he is, the master of the whole thing, playing it like nobody else can play, and yes that includes John Bonham, sorry John and Zeppelin fans:
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pFysHHLM08
                        This cat has played on countless hit records for decades, if you have heard him over and over again you just never knew it was him.
                        How cool must it be to get so old and so successful as a studio drummer throughout your life that when you're walking in a supermarket or on an elevator and there's "elevator music" playing and you think I played on that song 50 years ago: that's me! So cool. And all the great musicians he played with over the years. Wow what a dream. this guy is going to die with a smile on his face.

                        Now Jared himself against what I said above did his own tutorial on how to play this and I believe it is the most broken down easiest to understand:
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4X_IF9JU08

                        The key to this whole thing like almost everything else in drums and life is to go very slow at first. If you rush it you may get incorrect mind muscle memory locked down that will be unhelpful down the road. I would also not start with a metronome. Some guys think the Metronome is God, I do not, I think music should breathe, and when learning things you should start caveman slow, then yes it should be brought in in my opinion, and my experience, in my playing, and for my students, to approximately 50% of the time metronome, the other 50% of the time you should be "expressing yourself" and not using a crutch metronome all the time. in my humble opinion.

                        if you need more help keep asking us we will help you along. Do not hesitate to keep asking. That's what we are hear for. pun intended.




                        Last edited by GuruMyStick; 12-30-19, 07:44 AM.
                        TD-9 Module Gen 2; TMC-6 Slave Module; PD-105BK; PD-85BK x 3; CY-13R x 1; CY-12C x 3; Kit Toy China 15" x 1; Kit Toy Splash 10" x 2; KD-9; CY-5 x 2; FD-9-; Pintech Dinbat used as Cowbell; TDA-700 & Roland KCW-1 Sub Woofer; Pearl 902 Double Pedal; ROC-N-SOC V- Stool with Back Rest

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                        • #13
                          Thanks a lot for this advices. I'm not new to this... playing drums since >30 years. But I have to get 47 years old and find myself listening to you guys and get inspired.

                          Again, thank you for this. Honestly!

                          I never played Rosanna. But every time that Song is played in the radio, I listen. And I play it in my head or in the car on the steering wheel.

                          But I never really practised it constantly or focused.

                          Like it was said already, maybe Jeff would have played it different these days... but he can't

                          I think I somehow see the feeling of this song as a Monument... "don't touch".
                          Even if I listen to Toto with Simon Philipps I think, he doesn't Transport the vibes or it doesn't touch me, when he plays Rosanna.

                          On the other hand, it might be time for me to let it Flow.

                          But first, I have to finish the practising room in my house. Nice outlook and work for now...

                          Then I build my a2e conversion.

                          Until then I continue listening and playing in my head.

                          Ps: I have to get rid of this anoying german autocorrection
                          Former ddrum4 User, currently setting up new edrum Set with Millenium low-noise Cymbals with stealth conversion, Modules edrumin & drumit five, VST SD3

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                          • #14
                            i thought Keith Carlocks' workshop on shuffles was good .. most types of shuffles and ending with 'rosanna' ..

                            Audio | Video | Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip/Meinl cymbals

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                            • #15
                              .. i'm starting with 1 bowl of rice a day from now on..
                              Audio | Video | Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip/Meinl cymbals

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