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  • Electronic drums and the bad playing techniques we can develop.

    I recently sold my Mimic and went back to the TD-50. I must say after being away from the TD-50 for several months I have a new found appreciation for what it can do. The TD-50 in combination with the digital snare and ride and my ATV aDrums, makes for a very enjoyable and realistic playing experience. The positional sensing, stick tip articulations for crashes, cymbal dampening and tom rimshots really allow me to play like I would on my acoustic counter part.

    The first thing I noticed when going back to the TD-50 is that I unintentionally developed a bad playing technique from the Mimic. On the Mimic I replaced the default cross stick articulation on my snares with an edge / side rimshot sound. I wanted to have the added articulation for snare fills. When I first started playing the TD-50 I found I was having difficulty pulling the edge rimshot articulation. I kept getting a rim click sound. I finally realized that I must have been cheating on the Mimic and just hitting the rim of the snare and not rim + head to produce the edge rimshot sounds. It was really amazing how the muscle memory from the Mimic translated over to the TD-50. There is something to be said for positional sensing and how it helps to preserves your playing techniques.

    This last week I rearranged my drum room so I could setup my 4 pc acoustic kit. Having it readily available will help keep my playing techniques in check. I just thought I would share this with all of you. Anyone else had a similar experience?
    ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

  • #2
    I know this is off topic slightly but how would you compare the digital snare/ride to the ATV counterparts? I know that subject gets very heated in other threads but it would be nice to get feedback from someone that actually has used both extensively. I'm happy with my ATV snare/ride but am always on the lookout for something better.
    Pearl MIMIC Pro, ATV aD5, ATV aDrums Expanded

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    • #3
      I played electronics almost exclusively for about a year and was amazed at the change in feel and the little things you do differently to compensate for many little things including texture/swing of cymbals and hats. I made it a habit to play acoustics at least once/week to make sure I don't become complacent.
      E-kit: TD50KV with KD A22, SPD-SX, BT-1, Acoustic: DW Custom, Maple Mahogany, Zildjian K Customs, Sweet and Darks, Pork Pie Thrones, Tama Speed Cobras and DW HW, Zildjian sticks. Midas 32C, MD421, EV ND46, ND96, SM57, SM81. Past kits include Roland TD9 Mesh and TD30K.

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      • #4
        sure.. playing rimshots on metal rims/ acoustic heads (rimshot depth, angle and dynamics) are different on acoustic drums..
        the overall kit dynamics, Hihat behaviour, dynamics and rebound, Ride dynamics, rebound and 'articulations' (tip, shoulder, crash)
        are different, ..Toms rebound vs. size are different.. ...i guess the digital ride and snare are closer to acoustic.. but still not 1 : 1
        (and in reality nothing is..) but still if i want to play drums 'in my home'... it has to be electronic drums..
        | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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        • #5
          Originally posted by molson View Post
          I know this is off topic slightly but how would you compare the digital snare/ride to the ATV counterparts? I know that subject gets very heated in other threads but it would be nice to get feedback from someone that actually has used both extensively. I'm happy with my ATV snare/ride but am always on the lookout for something better.
          I guess part of this will depend on which module you are using. For the TD-50 the digital ride and snare are the best option. The ATV ride works wells with the TD-50 but you loose the positional sensing on the bow. The digital ride is a lot more sensitive and dynamic. I also prefer. the stick response of the digital ride over the ATV. In regards to the ATV snare I would say it is more bouncy than the Roland and the positional sensing does not work well. The digital snare is very sensitive and picks up every bounce and the positional sensing is outstanding. I do prefer the rubber rims on the ATV snare as they are more prototypical. I would eventually like to replace them to be more like the aDrums.

          I think the ATV snare works really well with the aD5 and I had good luck using it with the Mimic Pro. I did find that the aD5 module doesn't seem to pick up the lightest of snare hits. If I let the drumstick bounce the last few bounces where not detected by the module. Whereas the Mimic and Roland seem to do a better job of tracking all the stick bounces.
          ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dennisdoubleu View Post
            I played electronics almost exclusively for about a year and was amazed at the change in feel and the little things you do differently to compensate for many little things including texture/swing of cymbals and hats. I made it a habit to play acoustics at least once/week to make sure I don't become complacent.
            That is one of the reasons why I finally made an effort to get my acoustic kit set back up.
            ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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            • #7
              I play real drums at band rehearsal every week with the drums miked up and closed headphones on. Itís amazing how close the feel and sound is compared to edrums doing this. If I take the headphones off itís one hell of a shock! The main difference for me is the hi hat and cross stick. The cymbals using SD3 has tip so playing is much closer. Definitely stuff I do on the real drums though just just donít work as well on ekit
              Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mkok View Post
                I play real drums at band rehearsal every week with the drums miked up and closed headphones on. Itís amazing how close the feel and sound is compared to edrums doing this. If I take the headphones off itís one hell of a shock! The main difference for me is the hi hat and cross stick. The cymbals using SD3 has tip so playing is much closer. Definitely stuff I do on the real drums though just just donít work as well on ekit
                It has been about a year since I setup my acoustic kit. One of the first things that got me was dang these things are loud! I have been so use to playing through headphones. I will eventually setup my mics and run my acoustics through my audio interface.
                ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chance27 View Post
                  One of the first things that got me was dang these things are loud!
                  Same - I finally sold my acoustics (to make room for more junk) and when I set them up to demo for a buyer I couldn't believe how loud they were. It's a wonder my parents kept their sanity when I was in high school.

                  Pearl MIMIC Pro, ATV aD5, ATV aDrums Expanded

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                  • #10
                    I love this post. I always thought there would be a turnaround time for the 50 and for all it's great features especially the dynamic playability. It's a beautiful instrument. It had been unfairly judged on it's stock acoustic sounds vs. the Mimic when it arrived when there was always need for the player or a third party sound designer to make the unit crank. Roland even started off with tips on how to make sounds fatter and more realistic, they were well aware they had built something that far exceeded the level of programming from it's first three kit developers. It offers a transient designer. It even offers the blending of dynamically expressive one shots from any source. Then it was pounced on for not offering multilayered sampling from sample imports. A multisample layer blended with a great one shot is an extremely powerful combination and used on tons of records. There are VEX packs that fully exploit the potential snare dynamics of a single instrument as well as blending two internal layers for extremely articulate and cool snare sounds so you play the snare faithfully from edge to center, and as was mentioned in this topic, hit rimshots correctly and receive rimshots accordingly.

                    Agreed it preserves your playing technique and responds very much like a real kit and man can you also make some cool sounds on it. It's a powerful machine. Congratulations on using it and staying true to your acoustic kit chops.
                    Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-22-19, 03:50 PM. Reason: typo

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by molson View Post

                      Same - I finally sold my acoustics (to make room for more junk) and when I set them up to demo for a buyer I couldn't believe how loud they were. It's a wonder my parents kept their sanity when I was in high school.
                      During my high school years band practices were always at my house. My parents would always say ďat least we knew where you wereĒ.
                      ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Howstamychi View Post
                        I love this post. I always thought there would be a turnaround time for the 50 and for all it's great features especially the dynamic playability. It's a beautiful instrument. It had been unfairly judged on it's stock acoustic sounds vs. the Mimic when it arrived when there was always need for the player or a third party sound designer to make the unit crank. Roland even started off with tips on how to make sounds fatter and more realistic, they were well aware they had built something that far exceeded the level of programming from it's first three kit developers. It offers a transient designer. It even offers the blending of dynamically expressive one shots from any source. Then it was pounced on for not offering multilayered sampling from sample imports. A multisample layer blended with a great one shot is an extremely powerful combination and used on tons of records. There are VEX packs that fully exploit the potential snare dynamics of a single instrument as well as blending two internal layers for extremely articulate and cool snare sounds so you play the snare faithfully from edge to center, and as was mentioned in this topic, hit rimshots correctly and receive rimshots accordingly.

                        Agreed it preserves your playing technique and responds very much like a real kit and man can you also make some cool sounds on it. It's a powerful machine. Congratulations on using it and staying true to your acoustic kit chops.
                        I agree that the TD-50 has been unfairly judged. There is a trend in the industry right now that electronic drums need to sound like real drums. I guess I am on the other side of the coin and like the fact that the TD-50 is not afraid to be an electronic drum module and offers sounds that are different from the traditional VST sample. But, the TD-50s playability is really what pulls it all together and makes it such a joy to play. I do appreciate the Mimic and the aD5 for what they offer but the TD-50 is the only module I have played that does not force me to sacrifice my playing style or techniques.
                        ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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                        • #13
                          and p.s. ..you can play electronic drums exactly the same way you play acoustic drums ..(hitting/ playing in the same way, same dynamics)
                          if you regularly play acoustic drums (this means also, not relying on the rebound/ bounce too much) .. but.. if you only play electronics (mesh)
                          and never play acoustic, you can develop a habit of relying too much on their properties .. which will then be a disadvantage on acoustic drums..
                          what i mean is, your muscles will 'forget' how to play acoustic (over time) .. if you switch back and forth .. no problem..
                          | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ericdrumz View Post
                            and p.s. ..you can play electronic drums exactly the same way you play acoustic drums ..(hitting/ playing in the same way, same dynamics)
                            if you regularly play acoustic drums (this means also, not relying on the rebound/ bounce too much) .. but.. if you only play electronics (mesh)
                            and never play acoustic, you can develop a habit of relying too much on their properties .. which will then be a disadvantage on acoustic drums..
                            what i mean is, your muscles will 'forget' how to play acoustic (over time) .. if you switch back and forth .. no problem..
                            Agree absolutely. Buddy Rich apparently really did practice on pillows and the type of practice pad Joe Morello used, the old Ludwig slightly tilted pad on a metal plate, had more or less the rebound of a 3 ply mesh head nice and tight. He lived the next town over and knew my Dad and my friends who studied with him said he was adamant about to quote ericdrumz "not relying on the rebound/bounce too much" which If I am correct, translates into muscling out each stroke rather than relying on the bounce of a typical Roland mesh head. You do want to let the stick and head do some of the work, but you want to always be in control of the stick, at least so I've been taught. Rotating back and forth between electronic and acoustic would be the best. I wish I had more access to my acoustic kit. Here's Joe:

                            https://youtu.be/y2zCqH-9x_8
                            Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-23-19, 07:47 PM. Reason: Credit

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                            • #15

                              I think one of the biggest things that electronic drums have done for me is make me a softer more relaxed player. There is nothing more strenuouse on your hands and wrists than hitting a rubber cymbal really hard. I have noticed this more relaxed playing style has transfer over to my acoustic kit . I am not laying into the drums like I use to and choking them out. My playing is much more dynamic and I am letting the drums breath.
                              Last edited by Chance27; 02-23-19, 04:22 PM.
                              ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

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