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Heel down + Yamaha FP9500D + Roland KD9 = meh...

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  • Heel down + Yamaha FP9500D + Roland KD9 = meh...

    Hi,

    I recently bought the Yamaha FP9500D (direct drive) after trying it out on an acoustic set and liking it very much. Also, I've been reading so much nice reviews of it, and being primarily a heel-down player, I thought it would be the perfect pedal for my KD9. Alas I've played it for some weeks now and I find it almost impossible to control double taps compared to my old Big Beat pedal or even an old squeeky standard Roland pedal.

    I've tried playing it with a loose spring, medium spring, tight spring, and no matter what it just feels like it won't return back after a strike. Or more correctly: that it returns with varying speed from strike to strike making timing very difficult. I can do very fast double taps, but not medium.

    My technique is NOT the best. But on most other pedals I can at least control double taps without any trouble.

    Of course the KD9 doesn't have as much rebound as mesh drum kick pads, so I'm wondering if a direct drive pedal like the FP9500 need more rebound from the drum head?

    Do anyone have experience with the FP9500 direct drive or maybe even with thei particular combo of KD9 and FP9500?
    --
    TD-25, VH11, KD-120/Yamaha FP9500D, 3 x PDX100, PD125BK, CY-12C, CY-13R, CY-15R, Drum-tec Real Feel heads... Pearl Mimic Pro incoming...

  • #2
    What beater are you using? Felt? Hard plastic?
    *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
    Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPad. Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Loads o' synth modules. And...a uke or three.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by electrodrummer View Post
      What beater are you using? Felt? Hard plastic?
      Hard plastic. It came with a double sided beater (quite light). I have also tried with the heavier plastic beater that came with the Big Beat pedal.
      --
      TD-25, VH11, KD-120/Yamaha FP9500D, 3 x PDX100, PD125BK, CY-12C, CY-13R, CY-15R, Drum-tec Real Feel heads... Pearl Mimic Pro incoming...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kzil View Post
        My technique is NOT the best.
        This! I 've never played the pedal, but certainly wouldn't mind trying it out. My suggestion... practice, practice, practice. And this comes from someone who thinks his BD-technique is not the best either, and who should practice A LOT more as well. Ever tried another technique? Maybe heel-up may seem "the" thing for you at slower speed, or constant release, or heel-toe,...

        Stijn

        'lectric drumma
        Roland TD-20, Hart Dynamics 7.6, 2 x PD-7, extra PD-7 and Hart Snare laying around, Vic Firth Dave Weckl signature sticks, Axis A-longboards double pedal, Sony MDR-CD780 headphones and not enough inputs.

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        • #5
          Just to follow up 'lectric drumma, you certainly have a valid point: Technique is to blame. But very frustrating that simple double taps, which I do all the time on even an old, worn down Roland Crap-O-Matic pedal are virtually impossible to get right on the Yamaha.

          However: For some reason, the pedal itself was in a quite low position from the factory. I don't know why it took me so long to notice that, but after I've raised the pedal and fiddled around with spring tension, I'm getting there. It seems I need quite a high pedal for my (lousy) technique

          Well live and learn.
          --
          TD-25, VH11, KD-120/Yamaha FP9500D, 3 x PDX100, PD125BK, CY-12C, CY-13R, CY-15R, Drum-tec Real Feel heads... Pearl Mimic Pro incoming...

          Comment


          • #6
            I would use a felt beater or use the felt side. Also set the beater to hit the pad in the middle or slightly lower.
            E-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rz173edtgc...14709.jpg?dl=0
            A-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxkwbj1rv7...345-1.jpg?dl=0
            TD-30, KT10, PD-105/125, 13" DIY + BT-1, VH-11/CY5/14/15, PD-8 cupholder, PM-30

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            • #7
              Originally posted by djska View Post
              I would use a felt beater or use the felt side. Also set the beater to hit the pad in the middle or slightly lower.
              Thanks! I'll try adjusting the height of the beater. My pad is mesh, though, And I've been advised not to use felt on mesh.

              --
              TD-25, VH11, KD-120/Yamaha FP9500D, 3 x PDX100, PD125BK, CY-12C, CY-13R, CY-15R, Drum-tec Real Feel heads... Pearl Mimic Pro incoming...

              Comment


              • #8
                The KD-9 does not have a mesh but cloth head, so I would use a felt beater.
                E-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rz173edtgc...14709.jpg?dl=0
                A-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxkwbj1rv7...345-1.jpg?dl=0
                TD-30, KT10, PD-105/125, 13" DIY + BT-1, VH-11/CY5/14/15, PD-8 cupholder, PM-30

                Comment


                • #9
                  You may want to check out Jojo Mayer's DVD's Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer. Part I on hand technique, Part II on foot technique.
                  'lectric drumma
                  Roland TD-20, Hart Dynamics 7.6, 2 x PD-7, extra PD-7 and Hart Snare laying around, Vic Firth Dave Weckl signature sticks, Axis A-longboards double pedal, Sony MDR-CD780 headphones and not enough inputs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by djska View Post
                    The KD-9 does not have a mesh but cloth head, so I would use a felt beater.
                    Yes, that's right. In the meantime I switched to the KD-120, though. Much better response.
                    --
                    TD-25, VH11, KD-120/Yamaha FP9500D, 3 x PDX100, PD125BK, CY-12C, CY-13R, CY-15R, Drum-tec Real Feel heads... Pearl Mimic Pro incoming...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Try experimenting with foot placement. Try to avoid your toes being right at the top. Moving your foot further down the footplate might help with rebound of the beater.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 'lectric drumma View Post
                        You may want to check out Jojo Mayer's DVD's Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer. Part I on hand technique, Part II on foot technique.
                        ^ Seconded! I have both of Jojo Mayer's Secret Weapons DVD sets (part 1 and part 2). They are fantastic. Part 2, on foot technique, will help with unwanted, spurious double-tapping on the bass drum head.

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                        • #13
                          Kzil, following up. Despite that you find the double bonce problem more prevalent and more pronounced with your Yamaha pedal, the problem is not the pedal. I have a KD-140 and a KD-9, and I find both are easy to double trigger (i.e. obtain spurious, unwanted extra strokes) with pretty much any pedal. Small e-drum bass pads have much more bounce than an acoustic bass drum. With e-drum bass pads, I find you *cannot* play into the head as one might on an acoustic bass drum. You must play out of the head, using a constant release approach. There are drummers on here who solved this problem by putting falam patches and other dampening over the bass pad. I myself use a modified KD-9 that has extra felt padding with a mesh head stretched over the KD-9's playing surface. Also, I use a felt beater. These modifications reduce spurious bounces on the KD-9 and yet even still I find the need to play out of the head much of the time.

                          I'll change my recommendation from "you must play out of the head" to "it sure is helpful to play out of the head!" When you play out of the head, you avoid spurious bounces on e-drum bass pads and you avoid the body-damaging impact of the attack traveling back into your leg. Win-win. Here is a "quick tip" video from Ed Soph that someone posted in another thread. Although Soph doesn't use the words "constant release", that's the approach he's building with this "no spring" exercise.

                          Ed Soph Quick Tip on Bass Drum Technique

                          Last edited by TangTheHump; 02-06-18, 01:08 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Another video. This is from Russ Miller. There are many approaches to constant release, but this is a great example of multiple techniques combined into a series of strokes. As the video title notes, it's basically the Moeller approach for hands transferred to feet and pedals. Down. Tap. Up. Repeat. Down. Tap. Up. Repeat. Each stroke releases from the head.

                            Russ Miller Online Classroom: Converting Moeller to the Pedals

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                            • #15
                              Thanks! Much appreciated! I do tend to bury the beater.
                              --
                              TD-25, VH11, KD-120/Yamaha FP9500D, 3 x PDX100, PD125BK, CY-12C, CY-13R, CY-15R, Drum-tec Real Feel heads... Pearl Mimic Pro incoming...

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