Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Knee pain playing bass drum.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Knee pain playing bass drum.

    Hello fellow drummers from all around the world. I would like to seek some advice regarding the knee pain I'm currently experiencing right now. It might be a long post but please bear with me as I believe I need to elaborate my situation as crystal clear as possible.

    I've started drumming since the beginning of this year (self-taught) on a electric drum kit going, picking up songs through youtube covers and online tabs. Recently, around 2-3 months ago, I've started experiencing pain (I would consider it minor as I can bear with it, nothing major to the point that I can't walk) on my right knee.

    I've gotten myself a drum throne to elevate my seating position, which I thought was the initial cause to the pain. The pain went away for a while but came back again a little worse. The pain now comes when I drum, sometimes when I'm seating, walking or bending my knees.

    The pain concentrates around the middle (inside the knee cap) and the especially the upper part of the knee (the tendon connecting the quad and the knee cap?). I play heels up and I'm not sure what's the reason behind pain in my knee. I do have a few deductions:

    1) The impact from the beater to the bass tower is hurting my knee.
    2) The pedals I'm using may be the problem. It kinda swivels left and right.
    3) My technique on bass drum is wrong. Maybe I'm burying the beater too 'hard'. Or some other techniques which I don't know.
    4) The alignment of my tight, knee and foot is not right.
    5) There's something wrong with knee?

    Honestly, I'm very much depressed now as I really don't know what to do. I really want to find out the cause and go see a doctor if the pain persists so I can continue drumming again. Also, I don't really want to see the doctor before know what may be the potential cause to the pain so I'm not just prescribed with some painkiller or anti-inflammatory medicine.

    For those who read through the whole thing and gave their insight on my problem, I'm truly indebted to you.

    Thanks, a very sad drummer in pain.

  • #2
    Upload a photo/video of your setup. Could be many things from seat height, playing method (heel up or down), angle of kick to your body, etc etc etc. Difficult to assist in text form.
    *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
    DTX modules. Roland TM-2, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPad. Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Loads o' synth modules. And...a ukulele or three.

    Comment


    • #3
      things like this never work out good in text anyway.. ..find a proficient drumteacher in your town and book a drumlesson.. ..
      then show and discuss the subject /problem.. he will know what is normal, and what is not... so you can draw conclusions on what to do next ..
      obviously something is not right.. and i would be careful with that knee . .until you know the exact cause ..
      Last edited by Ericdrumz; 12-07-17, 01:30 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        As somebody who also has a defective right knee (inherited) I can sympathize, although luckily it doesn't effect my playing, only an outstretched leg effects my condition, but perhaps I can share what I know; since I have indeed visited an physiatrist and can pass on what I know.

        Your questions:

        1) Could be nerve pain, you might have to wait a while for that to heal (12-18 months for complete healing)

        2) Swiveling is really bad, that will cause problems - basically my problem, although unrelated to my kick pedal. Get a kick pedal that travels true and straight, without play. Sit behind it squarely, so not to be putting sideways force down.

        3) Burying the beater shouldn't cause pain issues, BUT in combination with your potential nerve pain and the swivel... all sorts of bad things could be happening while you are still applying force after the moment of beater impact.

        Find a drum teacher to teach you heal up playing (which is the best way really) is a really good suggestion.

        4) Possibly, see a physiatrist to get an answer, they will spot this, as that's certainly the story with me. There are exercises you can do to strengthen your knee.

        5) Unlikely, people with knee problems tend not to be able to walk unaided. Pain is the bodies way of telling you to go easy or stop for a while so healing can take place.

        Exercises:

        1) Without holding onto anything; crouch on one leg, hold for 1 second, then stand up again. Do it a few times, everyday. Obviously don't over do it, and don't lose your balance. 1 min exercise

        2) Stand up with your feet on the floor, and draw circles with your knee, 1 leg at time, trying to keep your heel on the floor. Again, 1 min exercise to do while standing occasionally throughout the day.

        Hope you are able to recover soon, and sort that kick pedal out!
        Last edited by Kabonfaiba; 12-06-17, 02:59 PM.
        ♦ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ♦ MegaDRUM + Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ♦ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ♦ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring
        Community Drum Module Document
        PA Specifications (wip)

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey, thanks for the reply people! I'm really touched that there're people out there that are willing to spare some time to help me. It is true that nothing can be told from just the bunch of texts above so I've recorded myself playing the bass drum from different angle as well as the condition of my pedal.

          Side view:
          https://youtu.be/ZL7uRqUIgsE

          Top view:
          https://youtu.be/rkENfWm0PJE

          Pedal:
          https://youtu.be/Bodo5m-kqYc

          I've also attached a picture of how my legs are usually positioned when I am playing the drum.

          I hope these additional videos and images can give you guys more information as to what could be causing the pain.

          Also thanks Kabonfaiba for the awesome information which I will definitely keep in mind for future reference.

          Hope to hear more from you guys soon.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have bad knees in general, but do not have problems playing. I play strictly heel-down, with a very light spring tension and don't bury the beater. The great thing about edrums is you don't need a lot of force to achieve volume. Not saying this will work for you - just relaying my experience. I agree with others though - a Physiatrist or Ortho visit may be a good idea to see if there's a problem with the knee itself.

            Comment


            • #7
              Your positioning looks ideal; legs sloping slightly down, so no problems there, but if you are more comfortable sitting lower, by all means you shouldn't have to force yourself to sit higher, try sitting closer or further away as well.

              Is that a KD-8 kick pad wrapped up? The playing surface on that is horrible imo, like kicking a brick wall - it isn't doing you any favors on comfort. I would upgrade to a KD-9 or KT-10, although a KD-120 mesh is even softer under the foot, but the KD-140 is a waste of money. If it's indeed a KD-8, that would be the number one cause of the pain imo.

              Second, as expected, your heal bearing hinge is gone. Replace the whole pedal as that isn't repairable.

              Third, I guess you are trying to add padding under your foot with the flipflops? That would tend to annoy me imo. How about some thick soled slippers instead? or at least something that doesn't come away from your heal as you play. Putting on a pair of trainers is even better, but convenience often trumps that.

              Fourth, I can't tell if you are doing this; but try not to use your kick pedal as a rest, between strokes. Basically, your beater should not be in contact with the pad during your resting "relaxed" position.

              Playing right at the top of the foot-board will also be making the pain worse as you'll be receiving maximum impact vibration. Move your heal further back down the foot-board if you can. But this is minor compared to the top 3 things above.

              This is based on my experience of playing a variety of very bad pedals / cheap ekits with hard rubber kick pads, and what makes the biggest difference. Often you need some adaptability to "what works best" on certain pedals, which is why I place playing style as least important. Sort of the basics out first, then you can focus on foot control.


              Last edited by Kabonfaiba; 12-07-17, 02:05 PM.
              ♦ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ♦ MegaDRUM + Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ♦ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ♦ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring
              Community Drum Module Document
              PA Specifications (wip)

              Comment


              • #8
                i agree your kick looks like a hard surface.. ..this could be one of the issue's ..
                if you want to improve that cheap.. ..try soften either the surface (foam) or your beater ..
                https://www.drum-tec.de/drum-tec-sound-absorbing-beater or could be diy-ed too ..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by molson View Post
                  I have bad knees in general, but do not have problems playing. I play strictly heel-down, with a very light spring tension and don't bury the beater. The great thing about edrums is you don't need a lot of force to achieve volume. Not saying this will work for you - just relaying my experience. I agree with others though - a Physiatrist or Ortho visit may be a good idea to see if there's a problem with the knee itself.
                  Playing heel-down will probably help but I prefer playing heel-up as I play to mostly rock songs on both the electric kit at home and acoustic kit during jam sessions. Agree with the don't bury the beater part and definitely am going to see a doctor regarding my knee.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                    Your positioning looks ideal; legs sloping slightly down, so no problems there, but if you are more comfortable sitting lower, by all means you shouldn't have to force yourself to sit higher, try sitting closer or further away as well.

                    Is that a KD-8 kick pad wrapped up? The playing surface on that is horrible imo, like kicking a brick wall - it isn't doing you any favors on comfort. I would upgrade to a KD-9 or KT-10, although a KD-120 mesh is even softer under the foot, but the KD-140 is a waste of money. If it's indeed a KD-8, that would be the number one cause of the pain imo.

                    Second, as expected, your heal bearing hinge is gone. Replace the whole pedal as that isn't repairable.

                    Third, I guess you are trying to add padding under your foot with the flipflops? That would tend to annoy me imo. How about some thick soled slippers instead? or at least something that doesn't come away from your heal as you play. Putting on a pair of trainers is even better, but convenience often trumps that.

                    Fourth, I can't tell if you are doing this; but try not to use your kick pedal as a rest, between strokes. Basically, your beater should not be in contact with the pad during your resting "relaxed" position.

                    Playing right at the top of the foot-board will also be making the pain worse as you'll be receiving maximum impact vibration. Move your heal further back down the foot-board if you can. But this is minor compared to the top 3 things above.

                    This is based on my experience of playing a variety of very bad pedals / cheap ekits with hard rubber kick pads, and what makes the biggest difference. Often you need some adaptability to "what works best" on certain pedals, which is why I place playing style as least important. Sort of the basics out first, then you can focus on foot control.

                    Originally posted by Ericdrumz View Post
                    i agree your kick looks like a hard surface.. ..this could be one of the issue's ..
                    if you want to improve that cheap.. ..try soften either the surface (foam) or your beater ..
                    https://www.drum-tec.de/drum-tec-sound-absorbing-beater or could be diy-ed too ..
                    I'm actually pretty comfortable at the height I sit actually, I don't feel that it's too low or to high as of now.

                    Yes, it is KD-8 kick pad and it does feel quite hard of a surface for the leg. I just added a thin layer of sponge in-front of the surface to make the surface 'softer' as I don't have much money to get a new kick pad.

                    I am looking forward to change the kick pedal to a new, budget-friendly one. Maybe a entry-level TAMA, or Gibraltar if you have heard of it.

                    Hahaha! Yes, I wore the flipflops as padding because i thought it might help to absorb the impact but I guess I'll try a training sneaker in the future.

                    I believe you're talking about me burying the beat most of the time. Thanks to the pain in my knee, I am going to learn how to not bury them to the kick pad. I tried a little but I find it quite hard to do heel-up as I will either lose balance or use the strength of my whole leg, to kind of 'float' my leg so the beater doesn't rest on the kick pad. I guess I will learn this slowly.
                    Last edited by lePtrx; 12-08-17, 08:42 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lePtrx View Post

                      Playing heel-down will probably help but I prefer playing heel-up as I play to mostly rock songs on both the electric kit at home and acoustic kit during jam sessions. Agree with the don't bury the beater part and definitely am going to see a doctor regarding my knee.
                      Switching to an A2E kit is what stopped me from burying the beater. It's very tough to bury the beater on a 20" mesh head without it bouncing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by molson View Post

                        Switching to an A2E kit is what stopped me from burying the beater. It's very tough to bury the beater on a 20" mesh head without it bouncing.
                        I wish I can get an acoustic set really, but I live in a condominium so the noise doesn't allow me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I havenít read the thread, but the first thing I noticed is your calf is not straight up and down. IMO, you should try playing heel-up. I know this will be a major change, but I think it will help after some time. Your calf should be straight vertically, and your thigh should be straight horizontally. (as possible)
                          Alan
                          _________________________________________
                          visit my website: http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            beater-foot looked like it was twisted outward some from the top view (in other words, not in-line with your thigh,,,,,, nice videos by the way) and I thought I saw a gap between your heel and the shoe myself, indicating that you are playing heel-up. Maybe bring the base drum closer to the hihats so your right leg isn't stretched outward so much? I could envision that causing a strain on the knee, just my thoughts.....best of luck!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Alan VEX View Post
                              I havenít read the thread, but the first thing I noticed is your calf is not straight up and down. IMO, you should try playing heel-up. I know this will be a major change, but I think it will help after some time. Your calf should be straight vertically, and your thigh should be straight horizontally. (as possible)
                              Do you mean that my calf is not vertical (or perpendicular to the ground)? I stretch out a little cause I thought that might help a little in soothing the pain. And I believe I am indeed playing heel-up.

                              Originally posted by treestump View Post
                              beater-foot looked like it was twisted outward some from the top view (in other words, not in-line with your thigh,,,,,, nice videos by the way) and I thought I saw a gap between your heel and the shoe myself, indicating that you are playing heel-up. Maybe bring the base drum closer to the hihats so your right leg isn't stretched outward so much? I could envision that causing a strain on the knee, just my thoughts.....best of luck!
                              by twisting outwards, I believe I should move the bass tower slightly to the left so my right foot doesn't twist outwards to the right?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X