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Kick Drum Rebound and Burying the Beater

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  • #16
    Well that's just my point Tang, I'm not burying the beater on e-drums, and it doesn't make any difference to the sound. I HAVE to bury the beater on these guest a-drums I play on, because they cause such horrible overtones if I leave the heads ringing.

    I contend with lack of rebound on the KT-10, trying my best to keep the beater in balance, from playing a-drums where I have to force my foot against the head to keep the noise under control, my situation is as abnormal as it gets.

    Didn't know the Roland's bass drum detection model was a con. That's disappointing. I would have thought the algorithm would have looked at the waveform length or background noise to detect whether to mute the overtones after the sample is triggered, not just bake all top velocity samples with the same effect.
    Last edited by Kabonfaiba; 09-10-17, 08:13 AM.
    ♦ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ♦ MegaDRUM + Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ♦ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ♦ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring
    Community Drum Module Document
    PA Specifications (wip)

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    • #17
      These comments are better than I expected. While it feels very normal and comfortable to bury the beater, I now have a better understanding, this technique is limiting.

      I'm going to work on these techniques. Put the 22" back into the kit. Tighten the head to normal. Loosen the tension on the peddle. Take a closer look at my sitting and watch the hell out of these videos. And practice, practice, practice.

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      • #18
        Kabonfaiba,

        "Well that's just my point Tang, I'm not burying the beater on e-drums, and it doesn't make any difference to the sound."

        On electronic drums, you're right that playing into the head versus out of the head makes no difference to the sound. However, playing out of the head offers the ability to use bass drum techniques that cannot be done when playing into the head. Also, playing out of the head, for the most part, eliminates spurious triggering. I'm not saying never play into the head, but if playing into the head is your only bass drum approach, then you lose an entire range of bass drum techniques and musical options.

        "I HAVE to bury the beater on these guest a-drums I play on, because they cause such horrible overtones if I leave the heads ringing."

        You're burying the beater to deal with unpleasant bass drum overtones? Re-tune the bass drum or bring a pillow and lean the pillow against the resonant head. If the bass drum has a microphone, pull the microphone back a bit from the drum, so that the microphone doesn't pick up as many overtones. Maybe the bass drum heads are shot? If so and if feasible, replace the heads.

        "I contend with lack of rebound on the KT-10... (snip)"

        I'm really interested in the KT-10, but your statement above gives me concern. So, the KT-10 has no rebound? Could you provide more details, please? Thank you in advance! :-)

        "...from playing a-drums where I have to force my foot against the head to keep the noise under control, my situation is as abnormal as it gets."

        One shouldn't have to "force a foot against the head to keep noise under control". If odd sounds from the drum are a problem, fix the drum. If playing quietly is the main concern, learn and use appropriate techniques for playing quietly. There is a huge range of technique all around playing quietly - what Dom Famularo calls "learning to play in first gear". For example, there are first gear Moeller strokes (downstroke, tap stroke, and pickup / up stroke) that involve only the fingers; no wrist and no arm movement. You can use these techniques on bass drum too, by using your smallest mass and muscle groups, such as toes, ball of the foot only, and ankles. Also, there is the bass drum feathering technique. There are many other techniques for playing quietly. This is one of the most challenging (and fun) areas of technique.

        "Didn't know the Roland's bass drum detection model was a con. That's disappointing. I would have thought the algorithm would have looked at the waveform length or background noise to detect whether to mute the overtones after the sample is triggered, not just bake all top velocity samples with the same effect."

        Yes, sadly, it's a ruse. Literally, they just bake all the top velocity levels with muted samples. They do this only with certain bass drum instruments. It's really annoying when you have a bass drum instrument that otherwise sounds great, but that has baked muted samples at the top of its velocity range. Those muted samples trigger regardless of whether you play into the head or not. So, while you're playing, if you accidentally play into the muted velocity range, the bass drum mutes. Playing out of the head has no impact. Consequently, on Roland TD modules, I avoid all bass drum instruments that have this property.

        "The video above is more in tune with me. I follow the Todd Sucherman philosophy of being sound lead above technique - by which I mean following the technique that gives me the sound I want, and vary between techniques in the moment. Burying the beater makes sense to me because I hate boomy bass as much as I love ringy snares."

        I agree with the philosophy that getting the sound and musical output you want should lead technique. However, there are certain techniques that are limiting (musically), or damaging to the body, or damaging to the drums, and in these instances looking for different technical approaches to achieve the same sound (without the damaging side effects) is often desirable. For example, there are many ways to rein in a booming bass drum, of which burying the beater is one approach. I do think burying the beater can be useful musically, but I don't think I'd want it as my core (or only) bass drum approach.
        Last edited by TangTheHump; 09-10-17, 12:24 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
          I guess most of us that started on acoustic drums would normally not have the habit of burying the beater, except when using that technique on purpose, like in some jazz beats. Playing acoustic kick I would never hold the beater against the head in normal play. I guess that is why I never experienced that particular triggering issue with edrum kicks, whether stock pads or my own 22" eKicks.
          I'm not sure burying the beater is any more or less prevalent on acoustic versus electronic drums. It seems to be something certain drummers feel more natural with than others. For example, as best I understand, Jeff Porcaro buried the beater. That seemed to be his main bass drum technique. He played using a heavily dampened bass drum so spurious notes were not a problem.

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          • #20
            thou quoted me, master ?

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