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Snare trigger, head & rim question

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  • #16
    Thanks for commenting Ericdrumz. Can you please elaborate on what you commented. That's all over my head, as I'm new to this stuff. How do I turn back the rim gain? Is there a way to test the sensor or reseat the sensor or something?

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    • #17
      Also, I have uploaded two videos showing how a hit on the head is causing the rim to trigger.

      This video is me clearly hitting ONLY the head on my PD-8 mesh pad, but you can see from the TD-4 module, it displays a rim hit on occasion:
      https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6...TZSeThwMkNqYUU


      This video is me again, hitting ONLY the head on my PD-6 mesh pad. You will notice that the rim sensor is not triggered. I would expect the PD-8 to respond in the same way. Does this mean the PD-8 has a broken or defective sensor:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Y...E5YU42Szg/view

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      • #18
        that's some 'digging into the head' lol .. if you read the manual on 'Rim Adjust' (and rim gain) .. you could try to find another setting
        for that pad .. .. it says there that a rim hit can be triggered when hitting head 'hard' ..I would try some different settings ..
        https://www.manualslib.com/manual/14...term=rim+gain# .. but it is strange that the pd-8 pad responds irregular to playing ..
        Last edited by Ericdrumz; 07-19-17, 01:06 PM.

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        • #19
          Hi folks, I think I have solution four your situation:
          I have Roland TD-4KP upgraded with snare PDX-8, and after years I have same problem as you described. But there is solution as follows:
          First check whether your TD-4 module is locked for editing or not (when you power on module there is a small icon of lock in upper right corner of screen?) If it is locked, first unlock your module for editing (push record button and up arrow button together, and then push power button simultaneously to start your module. In that case module will start but now without showing lock icon, i.e. module is unlocked for editing! (this procedure depends of your module and best way is read your module operating instructions) Following procedure is valid for Roland TD-4 module.
          After unlocking module for editing than you go to :
          1. activate your PDX snare pad by hitting it
          2. press -menu and than -down arrow till (No.8) pad settings option shown-and confirm that by- ok button,
          3 : press down arrow till - advanced edit function shown and - confirm by ok (to enter to advanced edit list)
          4: press down arrow to scroll till the Rim Gain item is shown, and than adjust rim gain value by turning the adjusting knob on module to some suitable position (value) when hitting the snare head will not trigger the rim sound and when quite enough heavy hitting of snare rim produce rimshot sound instead simple crossstick sound. Goal is to find sweet spot vhen hed is head, crosstick is soft hit, and rimshot is hevy rim hit. (My actual value is 0.6) If I remember well originally by default it is set to value 1.2, but in that time my PDX pad were brand new and piezzo foam cylinder under the head of the snare is little bit thicker than today after 4 years of use. So experiment with this rim value gain value (increasing rim gain will make pad more sensitive to rim stroke, and decreasing value turn pad sensitivity in favor of clear head sound (because through years- head trigger foam become thinner and rim sensor is attached directly to pad body (without foam) and because of that rim sensor become more sensitive than head sensor with foam. I think this is normal ageing process and Roland made this Rim gain adjusting possibility because this situation. Also I think that many sellers sold his PDX-6 and PDX-8 pads because they do not now to handle this mistriggering and they think that this pad is permanently malfunctioned. Also you can try to experiment with other pad settings such ie x-talk, etc.....
          At the end, after you finish do not forget to lock your module for editing (Turn module off, and then while push recording and down arrow button pushed together push power button simultaneously until module start and show small lock icon in upper right corner for a moment before show kit name. That lock will prevent someone to edit your settings until you unlock module again.
          I hope this will help!
          Cheears,
          Aca
          Last edited by AcaDorcol; 07-20-17, 09:55 AM.
          Roland TD-4 KP compact V-drum kit - upgraded with Roland KD-9 kik pad, Roland PDX-8 snare, Pearl P-900 kik pedal, MIDI cable to windows PC, Roland Vdrums FriendJam free program etc...

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          • #20
            Thanks Ericdrumz and AcaDorcol! This put me on the right track to solve this issue. However, I think the change that fixed it was not the "rim gain" but rather the "rim adjust". When I adjusted the rim gain, that effect seemed to only change how loud the rim hit sound would play, depending on how hard you physically hit the rim. Same as the pad sensitivity setting for a head hit. So it seemed to still falsely trigger a rim hit, when I hit hard in the center, regardless of how low I turned it. What did seem to make a difference was adjusting the "rim adjust" setting. By default, it seems this setting is set to 2.0. I lowered it to 1.0, and it seems the problem has disappeared. So thank you both for helping me with this. The manual doesn't really explain the Rid Adjust. What does this actually do? Just the sensitivity? It's confusing because there are separate settings for the "rim gain" and "rim adjust".

            Either way, adjusting this down to 1.0 seemed to fix the issue. Thanks again!

            For anyone that comes across this thread, I thought I would post the photos of the settings. You need to jump into the settings main screen, and then scroll down to Pad Settings, then scroll down to Advanced Edit, and then scroll down to Rim Adjust. This darn thing is buried and somewhat hidden, which is why I didn't come across it initially. As the setting for the head hit sensitivity is in a difference place. So I figured there was no way to adjust it. If Ericdrumz and Acadorcol did not post, I wouldn't have known to check.

            Hope this helps anyone else that comes across the unit. And AcaDorcol, I agree with you. I think the guy that sold it to me knew it was acting up and thought it was broken, which is probably why he sold it. When I emailed him about the issue, he acted like he had no idea and suggested I take apart the head to reseat the sensor and that this kind of thing happens. Well, I got the set now.
            Last edited by Americanninja; 07-23-17, 10:28 AM.

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            • #21
              cool that it's solved.. the names are a bit confusing.. 'gain' you would think is sensitivity.. but is rim volume ..
              Last edited by Ericdrumz; 07-23-17, 11:28 AM.

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              • #22
                I have the TD9 and I also get false triggering using my PD-125 snare. Yesterday I noticed a rimshot when I'd struck just the mesh head. In fact, I don't think I intentionally hit the pad, the stick accidentally dropped onto the head and triggered it. Also, there's been a few times I've played the rimshot (which I play most of the time) where I've had a double trigger of the rimshot sound, like two rimshot sounds in succession. I couldn't intentionally replicate these false triggers.

                So I'll have to look through the manual to see what settings to tweak. The sensitivity for the snare is about 8 I think which isn't too high. I'll have to see which of scan time, mask, threshold, rim gain, etc might need adjusting.

                EDIT: I've just noticed the posts by Americanninja and I'll experiment with the rim adjust.

                EDIT 2: There's no rim adjust on the TD9 but instead there's a setting called 'Retrig Cancel' which the manual says is to prevent spurious re-triggering. It says I should increase this until re-triggering no longer occurs. It also says the 'Mask Time' setting can also prevent it. So I'll have a play around with these.
                Last edited by Merlin5; 07-27-17, 06:24 AM.

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