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This makes me want to return to acoustics forever...

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  • This makes me want to return to acoustics forever...

    Okay, not really, but it really is eye opening. And yes, I understand the "sample" side of things can be improved.

    Alan
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  • #2
    Wow, thanks Alan. That's an eye opener. His last statement grained on me a bit when he said, "That's why I hate samples so much." To that I say, "I now know why I love samples so much. They make me sound like a rock star!" - even though I don't. :-)
    ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, eDRUMin 10, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

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    • #3
      Very interesting. If I could manage the volume of an acoustic kit I guess that is what I would play most. My e kit is much easier to play and way more versatile with respect to sounds.
      Equipment: TD-30KV, DW9000 hardware, ROC-N-SOC Throne, Behringer ULTRATONE K3000FX Amp, JBL EON 615 Powered Speaker, Yamaha MG06X. 1965 Ludwig Super Classic. Black diamond pearl. Zildjian K Custom Dark cymbals, DW 7000 hardware, DW 9000 kick pedal.

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      • #4
        An ear opener ;-)

        Just wondering, would the 4 drummers sound quite different (part 1) or almost the same (part 2) on E-drums? I.e. are the (Roland) sound modules preserving or annihilating individual styles?
        td-30 user ;-)

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        • #5
          Getting a sampled snare to sound good is not too hard.

          Getting real awesome toms sounds is quite hard!

          Getting a great sampled HH sound is nearly impossible.

          True, if you are going to record the next eye/ear opener like, let's say, the first Nirvana record, then yes ... real drums will make a difference.

          If you are at home and practicing and hoping to get great sounding drums without getting people around you crazy, than sampled sounds in headphones are great!

          If you are gigging a small band/club and having fun, samples are nothing to be ashamed of.

          If you are Neil Perth, gigging in front of 20,000 people, have a drum tech and crew to make sure your kit sounds awesome... than yes, samples are just stupid....

          It's all in the perspective.

          For myself, I am happy I can get pretty good sounds from sampled software in my headphones and have fun playing in the limited space and time allowed I have without annoying the spouse, neighbors, ....

          Would I love a real kit? YES!
          Can i play a real kit in normal hours or otherwise..... NO.

          But I'm quite happy I have the sampled kit to keep me playing.
          DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
          Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

          My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

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          • #6
            I agree with you.
            Equipment: TD-30KV, DW9000 hardware, ROC-N-SOC Throne, Behringer ULTRATONE K3000FX Amp, JBL EON 615 Powered Speaker, Yamaha MG06X. 1965 Ludwig Super Classic. Black diamond pearl. Zildjian K Custom Dark cymbals, DW 7000 hardware, DW 9000 kick pedal.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by perceval View Post

              If you are Neil Perth, gigging in front of 20,000 people, have a drum tech and crew to make sure your kit sounds awesome... than yes, samples are just stupid....
              Who is Neil Perth?

              Anyway, this test is bogus. The guy recorded the drummers with acoustics, then dubbed in their playing on the second take with samples that he aligned manually. No midi data was used, no triggering data saved at the time of the original performance. Well no **** the playing dynamics and feel was thrown out the window. You removed all dynamics by setting every hit at the same level. And the feel was lost when the engineer manually set up every hit instead of using midi data. Had he been triggering midi data while the original recorning was being done he could have just dropped in the samples without needing to set them at the same level and interpreting the players feel bu overdubbing their performance.

              Stupid test, stupid example, stupid results.
              Last edited by Tommy_D; 04-25-15, 01:31 PM.
              I think my work is done here.

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              • #8
                Much of what you say is true, but if you had paid attention to the playing, you'd see there was very little difference in dynamics - AND, where there was a difference, the engineer DID allow for that difference... much like an engineer would in the studio. I'm not arguing the fact that recording midi data would further improve the dynamic range, but only by a small amount. Now, if this had been a completely different piece being played, all this would have changed; but playing the most standard "rock" beat there is - yes, things are going to be pretty linear. You need to see the test for what it really is. Can a better test be derived? Absolutely.
                Alan
                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | message | recommendations

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                • #9
                  @ pereval. i totally agree as for being able or not on our first choice acoustic drums. in my opinion, nothing beats acoustics when the environment allows. but unfortunately, not for me.
                  i know there's been a lot of discussion on E'drums machine gunnin and sounding synthetic and all, but at the end of the day, i am very happy with e's because it enables me to continue to play the drums. unfortunately Gas is a serious illness to be able to get closer to making E's sound more like A's oh and who is neil perth??

                  Pearl Mimic pro, A to E 7 piece Pearl Decade maple, ddrum Deccabons, Ddrum DDTi, UFO X-bar triggers, Real feel heads, Gibraltar rack, VH13, PD105 side snare, Roc-N-Soc,Tama Iron Cobra, Iron cobra high hat stand, Cobra clutch, Pearl throne thumper, Roland and Kit Toys cymbals, Roland KC 500, Promark

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                  • #10
                    I really didn't think the test meant too much either.

                    Who is Neil Perth?
                    "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                    Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

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                    • #11
                      Neil Perth maybe?
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                      Roland TD-30KV, Alesis Strike Pro Kit, Tama HW, QSC K10x2, Logic Pro, Toontrack Superior Drummer 3, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre Thunderbolt Interface

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                      • #12
                        Darn auto-correct on computers... technology can be an add-on or a bother sometimes.

                        Of course, I meant Peart.
                        DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
                        Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

                        My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

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                        • #13
                          I listened carefully and came to 2 conclusions;

                          1) The 4th drummer pushed down on the HH more than the other 3, drastically effecting the fluidity of the sound, apart from that though... almost no difference in sound from player to player, all of the drummers hit the drums correctly at similar velocity to bring out their fullest tone.

                          2) Round robin is really important isn't it? The sampled kit sounded like 2 or 3 samples for each drum. This is no where near enough.

                          I was able to pick out moments where two identicle samples were played one after the other. When that happens, human short term memory takes over (probably subconsciously) and I believe that is where the illusion of authenticity breaks down. You don't need to play fast to machine gun, just having the same sound play more than once is enough.

                          My two cents. Very interesting / thought provoking experiment.
                          ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
                          ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                            I listened carefully...

                            ...almost no difference in sound from player to player, all of the drummers hit the drums correctly at similar velocity to bring out their fullest tone.
                            I don't agree with that at all. The first drummer was clearly the most experienced, and played with finesse/flow the most out of the four. While very slight, it could be heard as well. The choice in phrase for the test was terrible, but even that simple phrase provided just enough to hear a difference in the players. This was the ultimate intention of the test. The whole sample thing was added on IMO.
                            Alan
                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | message | recommendations

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Intruder View Post
                              Who is Neil Perth?
                              https://www.google.de/search?q=Neil+Perth ;-)
                              td-30 user ;-)

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