Gen16 Direct Source Pickups

[DustinRY]

First off, I am new to the thread. Reading through some of the posts on this site have convinced me to join the site and contribute my knowledge and experience whenever possible.

My project...

I am building an acoustic electric drum set. I got a killer deal on a used pdp set with virgin 24" kick drum, so I bought it and started my conversion. I have all mesh heads made out of solar screen and used drum rims. I am in the process of making piezo transducers work for the triggering mechanism. Plan on using a TD-6 drum brain since each channel accepts a 1/4" jack. Has anyone used this module with their own conversions? I have watched many many youtube videos, and everyone seems to be using Alesis brains. I much prefer Roland equipment since I have been using Roland gear for around 10 years, and have never had issues with it.

For cymbals, I decided to buy a new set of direct source Gen16 cymbals. I like the realistic look and feel of the cymbals, so I went out and bought a set without doing much research beforehand. I have them setup to practice with until I get the sounds nailed down for live shows. I didn't even know you can change the cymbals to different colors and lighting configurations. They look pretty sweet, and I know they will look super awesome under stage lighting.

A few questions on the cymbals... I haven't been really pleased with the sounds, but I also haven't had much time to play with the PC tool used to change the sound. I have read many posts on this forum about the non- direct source cymbals, but haven't seen much on the newer style direct source model. I downloaded the program last night, and updated the DSP to the newest version. I haven't had a chance to plug it back in and see if the sounds are any better. Each cymbal came with a small dampening nut and bolt with super small foam pad. Where are you guys putting this to get the most realistic sound out of your cymbals? I can't find much reference on where to mount these at. I also have a slight problem with the cymbals rotating around. I saw someone else posed a question on the cymbals moving around, but didn't see a solid answer on how to avoid rotation. With the direct source model, the nut on the bell of the cymbal is getting in my way during playing. It seems like the cymbal should have a slotted top with a "key" on the plastic stand component to keep the cymbal from rotating.

Do any of you guys have instructional videos or good advice on adjusting the sounds of the cymbals, and the best way to accomplish it?

Any and all recommendations would be greatly appreciated to keep my project moving in the right direction.

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

Hi there...welcome to the forum. I suggest reading completely through these threads....

http://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum/ge...ustic-electric (this one is long winded...but with much info)
http://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum/ad...-settings-here
http://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum/ad...xchange-thread

The Gen16 site has a few tutorials....but spending time with the Access Tool is the best way to tailor tones to your own ears. Be patient and relentless...the possibilities are endless. Also remember that it's best to tweak the tones using a "full" PA because they will sound much different "live" than in your studio or with headsets.


Also...this custom search engine seems to produce better results than the forums native one.... https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...85:ld78rt83m3w

Have fun.

[willsud]

Just to add to Daniel's comprehensive reply..

I've not found a way of stopping some rotation of the cymbals, however I've also not noticed much difference in sound in a live and loud band environment if the pickups do rotate a bit away from where they should be according to the instructions - I just rotate them back between songs (it's become another 'drummer obsessive twitch' like tapping the hi-hat between songs or doing a snare drum roll )

FWIW, I stick to the provided presets and tweak my mini-mixer to shade a fraction off the top frequencies and add a little of upper mid to the cymbals output before going into the drum PA (which also does a bit of 'warming' to the sound).

The software for the DCP called the Access Tool is impressive but as Daniel says, I found it very hard to judge in your own environment so it's setup, play with band, tweak, repeat - as ever - for as long as you can bear it, if you want to try to change how the cymbals sound.

Personally I trust the Zildjian people to sort that out but the tool is very cool whatever.

My band members love the shiny cymbals, the shiny lights and profess to hear no difference in the cymbal sounds other than it saves their hearing at the end of the night compared to 'real' cymbals (but then they're guitarists of course )

Best of luck with it.

[allanjohn]

Just to add to Daniel's comprehensive reply..

I've not found a way of stopping some rotation of the cymbalt.

There will be a new sleeve which significantly reduces rotation. It will come out with the new BB range in May.

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

There will be a new sleeve which significantly reduces rotation. It will come out with the new BB range in May.

I really don't have much problem with this but I have seen numerous posts expressing angst. If Gen16 is coming out with this for the BB...most likely it will be offered as an accessory also. You might even be able to contact customer service and pick one up now. In the main Gen16 thread that I link for you there is a user named Julia. She's head honcho for many of the innovations from the development team. You should post your query directly to her there. She's a great lady and very helpful when it comes to these things.

[willsud]

There will be a new sleeve which significantly reduces rotation. It will come out with the new BB range in May.

Thanks aj look forward to that

[BWaj]

I'd do whatever Daniel says when it comes to Gen 16's, he talked me off the ledge and I love mine now. It took me a LONG time to tweak them how I wanted, but I was also an audio engineer in another life so I can't ever stop tweaking.

I'm not a fan of the module or software, in fact, I hate it and think it needs to be completely redesigned. However, if you accept they designed it the way they did for some unknown reason and force yourself to work in their format, you can get the sounds you're looking for. I love the cymbals themselves and the direct source pickups, those are incredible.

I find it's helpful to keep a punching bag nearby when you plan to tweak your sounds and make sure there are no children in earshot, lol. You should probably plan to go to confession the next day too because you'll say some things you are not proud of.

But then, after a few tries and MANY hours, they will sound great!

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

I find it's helpful to keep a punching bag nearby when you plan to tweak your sounds and make sure there are no children in earshot, lol. You should probably plan to go to confession the next day too because you'll say some things you are not proud of.

But then, after a few tries and MANY hours, they will sound great!

hehehehehe.....the truth of this made me giggle.....a lot.

[DustinRY]

This may be a silly question... But here goes. I bought two 16" crashes with the 13" hats and 18" crash/ride. One of the 16" crashes sounds normal through the DSP processor, and the other sounds like a splash cymbal. Do I need to do something different so that the processor recognizes the cymbal as a crash?

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

The processor has no idea what cymbal you have plugged to which input. The labels are just there for convenience. So...you will have to either use a "crash" preset(maybe the same as the other one you like) and/or tweak a preset that suits you from scratch ...or....just maybe just start with the one you like and tweak it, all using the Access Tool.

[DustinRY]

I have tried every channel on the processor without actually going into the access tool and adjusting anything. All the presets sound bad. There isn't one that sounds good... Do I need to copy the presets in the crash channel that sounds good into the port where it sounds bad? Would that be a good troubleshooting starting point?

[DustinRY]

Nevermind. I was able to figure it out. The DSP automatically had splash cymbal presets loaded in channel 4, and china presets loaded in channel 5. I copy and pasted the patches from channel 3 over to channel 4, and it fixed my problem. I moved the presets from channel 4 over to channel 5 just in case I need those in the future.

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

Excellent. You can always "recall" these later from your PC with the Access Tool should you decide to change them.