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Using a TD-3 With Focusrite Scarlett?

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  • Using a TD-3 With Focusrite Scarlett?

    I've been wanting to get my own playing (via my TD-3) on some of my projects, and I was looking at getting a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. However, I've had spotty results with recording MIDI from the kit into my DAW (missing notes, velocity mis-reads, etc). I'm just wondering if it's worth it to get the 2i4, or if the TD-3 brain is so old/low-grade that it won't help. Anyone using an older v-kit with a newer interface?
    TD-3//EZDrummer//Superior 2.0//Pacific, Pearl, DDrum//Zildjian, Sabian//DW

  • #2
    Wow, for the price of the scarlett you could almost upgrade to a used TD9 or something!

    Just sayin!
    "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

    Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Intruder View Post
      Wow, for the price of the scarlett you could almost upgrade to a used TD9 or something!

      Just sayin!
      ? The 2i4 costs $200. Are there seriously entire kits for $200?
      TD-3//EZDrummer//Superior 2.0//Pacific, Pearl, DDrum//Zildjian, Sabian//DW

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, I thought the scarlett was $499. My bad!
        "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

        Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

        Comment


        • #5
          There is no cheap option for live triggering VSTs with acceptable low latency unfortunately. Getting a new sound card is the correct way to upgrade a drum kit if you're not looking at a new module for more triggers, but to revolutionize the sounds you get out of your monitors when you gig with a PC.

          All drum modules send the same MIDI data at the same speeds (roughly 2-4ms) so there's no gain to buying a TD9 for that reason. - only when you get to the TD20/30 actually will you see the benefit of the modules that also send PS data over MIDI which some VSTs can use, but otherwise yes, you should divert maximum funds towards a audio interface as low latancy triggering matters more to drummers than one would think. Getting buffer sizes down to 128, 64, even 32 matters huge lot to the feel of your instrument, more than any other!

          The cheapest option I can suggest for PCs with a spare PCIe port would be the [email protected] XTe - obviously this isn't portable so not a good option for touring drummers but it's one of the greatest value options as latency tests show.

          USB interfaces, I suggest either the RME Babyface or Roland Octa-capture, which is not cheap at £400. But both have the lowest latencies for the cash and the least problems for users. Getting even lower latencies requires a huge jump into the thousands, so if you're just running VST drums, makes little sense. All the other Roland interfaces below the octa-capture are products from china not Japan, don't get them. Products from Focusrite are probably okay too but in terms of latency, they are no better than the competition for the price. You still need to buy an expensive 8 pre-amp focusrite just to get below 10ms RTL figures, and I don't need the 8 microphones lol.
          ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
          ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
          PA Comparison Sheet

          Comment


          • #6
            Kabonfaiba - THANK YOU! That was a brilliant bit of information. I would love to have a newer v-kit but if there's no immediate need, i'd rather put the $$ into something else (such as the interface).

            The Scarlett has a "zero latency monitoring" mode that can be enabled while recording, but i'm not sure if that's relevant for MIDI data since there's not necessarily any actual sounds being recorded. If that mode DID work for recording my v-kit's MIDI data, it would be a no-brainer, but again, i'm not sure how that all works.

            That said, maybe that mode would help getting buffer sizes down since, even if the latency through the interface was noticeable, enabling the "zero latency" mode SHOULD make that a moot point, right?
            TD-3//EZDrummer//Superior 2.0//Pacific, Pearl, DDrum//Zildjian, Sabian//DW

            Comment


            • #7
              'Zero latency mode' only has an effect on the audio-inputs, nothing to do with MIDI or it's 2-4 ms latency.

              This mode would come into play if you were to record the TD's built-in sound through some fancy (latency-heavy) VST-processing from the computer (ie. IR reverbs, compresors, eq's), in which case you could 'balance' out the delayed, effected signal from the computer with the pure signal from the module via the front-panel knob (labeled 'input - playback') of the scarlett interface.


              HTH
              .
              .
              Greetings from Switzerland,
              - Dänoh



              "My best friends' name is J-SON. They used to call him 'Mr. Parse.' He has an 'Error'..!"

              http://www.vdrums.com/forum/core/cus...ar33631_4.jpeg

              Comment


              • #8
                What HM said is correct, the 'zero latency' modes these devices advertise is very specifically a pass-thru for the analogue signal, i.e. from a guitar. What you need is something entirely more difficult to shop for; which is a device that is powerful enough to take MIDI data from your TD3, pass it to your PC via a USB or PCI connection, then pass that back again out to your monitors or headphones as fast as possible, within about 12milliseconds (some say that is the acceptable maximum)

                Mapped out it should look like:


                [TD-3]________________(MIDI Cable)_____________[Audio Interface]______________(USB 2.0 Cable)_______________[PC]
                |_______________________[Speakers]





                Here is the research I'm referencing from:

                dawbench-llp-05-13-1.jpg

                See also: http://dawbench(dot)com/images/dawbench-llp-05-13-2.jpg The Roland Octa-capture is not on there because they've stupidly not sent a device for testing to the same guy doing the control tests. But others have quoted they manage to get "6.3-6.4 ms RTL" out of it.

                Important to mention that a decent CPU will be needed for those 32 buffer sizes. As lower buffer = more CPU stress.
                So the 32 buffer sizes may not be possible for everybody. I think it probably requires an Intel i5 or i7 running at least 3.2GHz upwards with the speedstep turned off.
                Last edited by Kabonfaiba; 03-14-14, 03:21 PM.
                ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
                ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
                PA Comparison Sheet

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm using a 3-year old iMac (dual core) if that makes a difference.

                  I'm not in a position to spend more than about $200 on an interface at this point (the 2i4 is slightly more but i'll be using gift cards), so that's why i was curious about the Scarlett series specifically. I only wanted to "splurge" for the 2i4 if the MIDI capability would allow me to record my own playing w/o latency. If that's not possible (sounds like it's not), i can get the 2i2 for cheaper.
                  TD-3//EZDrummer//Superior 2.0//Pacific, Pearl, DDrum//Zildjian, Sabian//DW

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well you'll absolutely need MIDI in because there's no other way of plugging into your TD-3 otherwise!

                    My advice, check to see if your iMac has any FireWire ports... if so, find a new Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 or a used Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 and buy that, instead of the 2i4. - It's considered one of the best of the older generation and I guarantee it will achieve lower latencies than the 2i4 ever will for the same cost (hopefully, I'm not sure about US prices).
                    ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
                    ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
                    PA Comparison Sheet

                    Comment


                    • Intruder
                      Intruder commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Why do you need midi in for that to work?

                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                    Well you'll absolutely need MIDI in because there's no other way of plugging into your TD-3 otherwise!
                    Originally posted by Intruder View Post
                    Why do you need midi in for that to work?


                    A little clarification: That's "MIDI-out from TD3" into "MIDI-in on your interface" [!] which then goes "to computer; via FW or USB cable." *

                    So you definitively need a MIDI-in socket on your interface. **







                    * ...unless you have a PCI interface
                    ** ...unless your module has MIDI-over-USB; or you are using a dedicated MIDI-interface





                    HTH
                    .
                    .
                    Greetings from Switzerland,
                    - Dänoh



                    "My best friends' name is J-SON. They used to call him 'Mr. Parse.' He has an 'Error'..!"

                    http://www.vdrums.com/forum/core/cus...ar33631_4.jpeg

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      That does clear things up. However, we are talking TD11 so no interface is required midi is from usb correct?
                      Since I have the 30 / 9 I do not use the usb.
                      I have most of the VST's and I have found that Addictive Drums used with Reaper is about the easiest way to go followed by SD2 / BFD.
                      SD2 and BFD require a lot more tweeking especially the hi hat. Addictive Drums is close to plug and play YMMV of course.
                      "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                      Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Opps, my bad (Again!!) thought this was the 11 thread not 3.
                        Nevermind!!!!!!
                        "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                        Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

                        Comment

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