2Box module with Roland PD-105/85 pads

[billgtx]

(Tried to post this in Advanced/Technical, but got the JSON error)

I have the module up and running and even the stock sounds are impressive to me. Very glad I took a chance on the 2Box module. I have a Roland TD-9KX with PD-105 snare and PD-85 toms. It doesn't seem to matter which pad, but any rim tap (even very lightly) triggers the head. I have XTALK set to HIGH on all heads and rims. I have THRESHOLD on all rims set to -12 (this highest it can go.) I have THRESHOLD on snare set to -48 (love the little ghost notes) and the tom heads I have it at -36. I have GAIN set to 0 on all rims and heads.

For the snare I have PAD12 and toms I have PAD10 for the head. For the rims I have RIM. I've tried a few different pad types, but didn't see any noticeable difference.

1st question.
I guess I'm OK if I'm stuck with effectively single zone pads for the snare and toms, but I was wondering if there is anything else I could do to be able to play a rim sound independently without splitting the signal, buying another trigger of some sort and mounting hardware.

2nd question (2 parts)
2a. If I decided to buy the 2Box snare and tom pads, what extra mounting gear would I need to replace the Rolands pads on my MDS-9 rack?
2b. I've read a lot about the rubber on the rims not holding up on the 2Box pads. Has that been addressed by the manufacturer or are there DIY type solutions for that?

Thanks! I'm very much looking forward to being able to use the 2Box full time. Just gotta sort out a few issues.

- BillG

[hairmetal-81]

Bill,

if you set the trigger-type to 'PAD10' for the PD-105, and 'PAD8' for all the PD-85s respectively, what happens?
Have you tried putting rim xtrig to max, too?


HTH

[billgtx]

Not in front of the kit so I'll check when I get home. I think they were all set on HIGH. Guess I didn't think there was a setting above that. I did try a variety of pad types.

[JmanWord]

I on my android phone so I will post more later. But your threshold settings are wrong for the rims. Your -12 makes it almost impossible to trigger the rim. -12 means least sensitive. -48 is most sensitive. You are dealing with negative nos.

[billgtx]

Hi Jman. I want it to be easy to trigger the head (because I have to play it - sometimes lightly) and hard to trigger the rim. Actually, it doesn't matter on the rim settings at all because no matter how lightly I tap the rim (think rim click) I get a head sound. That is the problem I'm dealing with. I want to trigger the rim without getting a head sound.

If I up the threshold on the heads, then they become unplayable. Have to hit too hard to get any sound.

[billgtx]

Unrelated question. Does anyone know the correct bolt size to mount the 2Box module? I bought M6-1.0x16 and they won't work.

[hairmetal-81]

Unrelated question. Does anyone know the correct bolt size to mount the 2Box module? I bought M6-1.0x16 and they won't work.

Try this link:

http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1314.0

HTH

[billgtx]

Thanks. That's the link I got the M6X16 size from. I guessed at the -1.0 part since there were multiple sizes to choose from.

[hemiboy]

M12 is the size I believe

[JmanWord]

Hi Jman. I want it to be easy to trigger the head (because I have to play it - sometimes lightly) and hard to trigger the rim. Actually, it doesn't matter on the rim settings at all because no matter how lightly I tap the rim (think rim click) I get a head sound. That is the problem I'm dealing with. I want to trigger the rim without getting a head sound.

If I up the threshold on the heads, then they become unplayable. Have to hit too hard to get any sound.

You are welcome to read this if you want. Adjusting Gain and Threshold for both head and rim are important. By the way, setting Crosstalk at High on both head and Rim defeats the purpose. With the proper settings you should be able to get consistent head play without triggering the rim on the head. And you should be able to get consistent rim play without triggering the head sounds on the rim ...... I do believe the best compromise is to have the rim setup so the really light hits might trigger head sounds, that is preferable to the opposite. But I don't think you will have to use a dual zone PD pad virtually as a single zone only. Head: Set the Gain so that your hardest hits peak the velocity level. Lower gain if you are peaking the levels too easily, raise gain if you do not peak on your hardest hits. Set the Threshold so your lightest hits are detected. How I set threshold is to start at -48 then raise threshold until your lightest hits are no longer detected, then lower it a notch at a time until your lightest hits are detected. You only want the threshold as low as needed, too low and double triggering or crosstalk can become a problem.
Rim: Repeat the same procedure for Gain and Threshold.
Crosstalk: Although this setting is normally designed to eliminate crosstalk from another pad, it actually works very well for the problem you are talking about. After adjusting the parameters as I described above. Try raising the crosstalk, in your case raise the Crosstalk on the Head .... that should make it so you can play the rim at light and hard velocities without triggering the head sound. After raising the Crosstalk setting you may be able to go back and set your head or rim settings a little more "sensitive". This is a process that you need to go through on each drum IMO.

[billgtx]

Thanks Jman!
I had read this on the 2Box forum and thought I followed this. I will revisit tomorrow.

[JmanWord]

Thanks Jman!
I had read this on the 2Box forum and thought I followed this. I will revisit tomorrow.

I am interested in your results. With my own pads I have great results, and the crosstalk parameter works magic for me. But I did have problems with a previous DIY pan build that I had used with great results on my TD-20 module that I could not get a consistent separation on the rimshots/headshots with the 2Box module. On that problem I did a physical hardware mod, changing the rim piezo to a smaller size and that worked excellent. So it is possible at times to have a pad with a zone that is just too hot .... or too cold for that matter. Hopefully you will be able to set it up.

Personally I have split all my toms because I prefer to have additional single zone cymbals or drums. If you do go that route, all the Tom inputs as well as the snare input are splittable with a standard splitter like the Hosa YPP-117.

[billgtx]

Went through the process on Tom1. For the head I ended up with a Gain of 1 and a Threshold of -38. Curve Normal. For the Rim I ended up at a Gain of 0 and a Threshold of -44. Curve Normal.

Then I started playing with XTALK. First both head and rim to Off. A tap on the head of about level 40 triggerrd the rim too. Raised rim XTALK to Low. A head tap of level 70 triggered the rim. A rim XTALK of Med took a head hit of about 100 to trigger the rim. A rim XTALK of high would make it so that only the hardest head hits triggered the rim.

On to the head XTALK.

XTALK off. A rim tap of about 15 is enough to trigger the head. XTALK Low. A rim tap of 20 was enough to trigger the head. XTALK Med. Same result. XTALK High. Same result. A head tap of about 20 triggers the head.

I switched out cables - no difference. Tried Tom 2 - similar result.

Now all of this said I do have a wokaround. For those songs where I need a cross stick I just assign it to Tom 2 head and play a 4 piece setup.

If there are some easy hardware mods I might give them a go. Not much of a DIY-er so would need some pretty good instructions.

Thanks again Jman for working with me on this.

[hairmetal-81]

If no modification is bringing a solution, you might try assigning the cross-stick to a separate aux-trigger, like so:

http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1913.msg17094#msg17094